Fixing the Bugs - some optimistic questions

[madcow23]

I posted in the "General" forum and someone suggested I stick my head up in here as well. Not sure why I didn't just try this forum in the first place!

It's pretty obvious that CTP still has some major bugs in it, especially in the scenario support. Patch 1.2 added some great new features but unfortunately the greatest, scenario support, was pretty badly bugged.

"CTPFan" managed to fix some, but not all of these bugs. Massive respect to him/her for doing so.

With this in mind, I have a few questions for everyone:

1. Do you think there's any chance of a 1.3 patch, not necessarily to add any further features but just to fix those that were flawed in 1.2?

2. Was CTPFan a member of the development team, or in some way connected with Activision, or were they really just that, a CTP fan?

3. If CTPFan was not a member of the development team, how did they crack the code? Knowledge of assembler, decompiling techniques etc?

4. If Activision won't do anything, what are the chances of CTPFan or anyone else doing it for them? (I'd do it myself but I doubt CTP is written in COBOL, which unfortunately is about all I know...)

5. Finally... is anyone working on this at all?

[Nordicus]

Hi.

1. All I've heard point to a No. Apparently, there's been *some talk* about CTP2 being developed (if so, I wonder when Civ3 will come out--next year?), so I don't know. Evil empires (no--*ahem* microsoft *ahem--names) that have made games that become popular and such can probably afford to make further patches--maybe even for "flops"--IMHO, but I think this is it for CTP.
Doesn't bother me--there's plenty yet to be modified in this game, enough to keep us all here busy until 2002!

2. Don't know.

3. I'm not a programmer, so I have no clue here.

4. I think that it's very likely. If *CTP2* gets kicked out of the house prematurely, naked and freezing in the cold PC game realm (*sounds* like that's what they're doing again), then it will be more of the same. I guess it's cheaper to have people make the game better when fans do it for free.
But when people realize that (a) this is it for another year probably, and (b) this game has immense potential, I think more people will give it a shot.

5. Not that I'm aware of--just tiny things at a time, no "hacker" stuff. But a lot is on the go--much has been done already. I'm just finishing the new trade goods, an earth map, and then I'm going into aip-specific units, which will make a WWII scenario possible. After that, I'll probably work more on the AI and diplomacy (still plenty here to do).

Later

T.

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"The more passion for the argument, the less evidence for it"--Russel.


"I *may* have solved some of the problem with specialists tonight. Then again, I may have screwed things up- I don't know. If that happens, I won't know whether to laugh, cry, or both. God, I'm starting to sound like Nordicus (the horror!). "--Wes Whitaker, during AAIPs testing.

[Rowick Hepan]

Hi All,

It sounds like Activision has dumped CTP but personally that suits me fine. CTP is so infinitely modifiable that one can do almost anything with the game and the best ideas always come from the people who love the game, not those who are being paid to do it!

I'd be happy to see a 1.3 mod although to be honest I don't really know what the scenario problems are. One thing that would be good would be to see some of these mods more standardised and with better documentation. There are just so many out there these days it is becoming difficult to figure out what rules are being used in any give mp game. I'd love to see mods grouped into some standard settings (ie, Dutchese, Awesome Aips..... etc.) and if possible for someone to come up with an easier mechanism to change between mods. There's a lot out their but I've never tried 3/4 of it because I'm worried about not being able to get back to my prefered settings.

Anyway I'm sure this is mostly a lot of daydreaming but what do people out there think?

[madcow23]

Rowick - the problems I'm talking about are purely the ones to do with faults in the code. Specifically:

- the way the scenario structure doesn't work for all files. You're supposed to be able to hold any altered files within the "scenario" structure, leaving the originals intact. Unfortunately this doesn't work for every type of file, such as Great Library files and AI data. It means that you really can't be confident of installing more than one mod/scenario at a time, and you'll end up reinstalling CTP an awful lot...

and

- the problems associated with loading/re-loading saved files when using scenarios. CTPFan fixed a lot of these but not all. In particular, if you're using a pre-made map, you'll end up going through the rigmarole of starting a new game every time you want to load a saved position. Additionally, to start a new game with the Apolyton pack, you effectively have to do it twice in order to make sure the amended civ names are picked up. Both of these are clearly documented in the readme for the Apolyton Pack.

None of these problems are insurmountable, but they are off-putting and really should be fixed as they are significant bugs (I can't believe they weren't picked up in playtesting).

Personally I'd also like to see a couple of other problems fixed - such as the erratic mouse speed - and I'd like the ability to select up to 32 civs on the main screen without having to edit files and risking the game crashing if you forget you've done this. But these aren't major issues.

All this would seem to be an appropriate number of fixes for a 1.3 patch, and it would be nice to see CTP "completed" in this way.

I wasn't talking in any way of the work that has been done by the many fine people on this forum regarding scenarios, mods and amendments... CTP has been transformed since its release and I agree with Nordicus when he talks of its endless potential. I can't wait to see what the future brings.

[Locutus]

We still need flat map-support as well and some missing SLIC-code. I'm sure there are even more things to be changed that can't (easily) be changed by the fans, but I can't come up with those right now. Just check the Suggestions to the team forum to see what other people what to see in a new patch. Some of it can be done by mod-makers but some of it can't.

[Nordicus]

Yes, to fix some code bugs/problems/nonsense, we need another hack, at least. Checkout the General section--someone has an interesting link. (The "Confirmation that there will be an addon" thread.) Apparently, Civ3 is due in May and a "Mission Pack"--of all things--is planned for CTP in February. *shaking head* Mission Pack . . . .
Mission to where? Bugville?