topology?

[fluffy]

I hope you don't mind some outside input!

I know its a bit early, but do you have a rough map in your mind(s)? I get the impression it would look a bit like switzerland, vaguely circular, but with mountains around the edge, rather than in the middle.

It occurs to me you might want to have two types of map: fixed province location and shape (corresponding to boardgame version), and a random arrangement, which allows
a range of neighbours and settlement locations - this would stop the development of strategy becoming too fixed, relying on specific configurations of resources.

It would be an interesting algorithm to draw such a map automatically, similar to that used for civ-type maps, but with an output more like EU.

[FrustratedPoet]

Outside input is what this forum is for. Welcome!

Yes, there is a map for the game .... Cyclotron7 has a link to it in his signature ... he used to anyway, try and find a post of his and have a look. (he's not an artist so it doesn't look pretty, but it is a good piece of work. )

It does look a great deal like Switzerland. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but you are quite correct.

It is very much our intention to have a a random map generator as a part of the game at some point. However, at the moment it is a low priority.

[FrustratedPoet]

I found if for you ...

this is the link to the Candle'Bre concept maps

The images on that page are quite large, I'm afraid.

[JMarks]

ooh, ooh, maps. I love maps. I'd love to work on maps if Cyclotron doesn't mind.

Plus, isn't there a way to color code or hue elevation in some 3d program so you can just paint what you want via color coded elevation and get the proper corresponding elevations?

Ok, I didn't say that very efficiantly, but I hope you guys know what I'm talking about 'cause that would be VERY helpful, not to mention cool.

Plus I like the idea of a random county generator. We could have it go go along potential areas like rivers, inner mountain ranges, etc. You get the picture, I hope.

[moomin]

JMarks: I've already campaigned for a RMG here. Current wisdom it that it's out, at least for the free version.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
I found if for you ...

this is the link to the Candle'Bre concept maps

The images on that page are quite large, I'm afraid.

Very cool. Hadn't seen this before.
I love maps too.

What do all of the markers indicate? The green dots seem to occupy provinces denoted as forested so that seems pretty obvious - What about the black and grey dots? Mountains/foothills?
Blue lines = rivers?
Black vertical bars near blue lines and the blue puddle (which I figured for a lake even before reading the annotation at the bottom - a feat of which I am very proud ) = swampy stuff?

Its quite amazing just how much a simple map seems to really flesh things out, so to speak.
Very good job.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
I've already campaigned for a RMG here. Current wisdom it that it's out, at least for the free version.

Current wisdom is that the vital priority (in coding terms) is to get the game to work ... at all ... so we can play it.
From this point of view an RMG is non-essential and is therefore not being done ... if and when our coding team has time to work on it then we would all love to see an RMG in the game. When such a time will be is impossible to predict.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by ravagon
What about the black and grey dots? Mountains/foothills?
Blue lines = rivers?

yes green = forest and black = mountain.

the blue lines must be rivers. It seems logical that the water would run in rivers down the mountains and collect in the lowest place in the country (the lake )

I'm not sure about the yellow and grey (maybe plains and foothills???) dots, but i think the brown lines are supposed to be swamps.

Cyclo is in Japan right now ... I'm sure he'll put us straight on this issue when he gets back.

[Velociryx]

Here's the color key for map terrains:

Large Blue Puddle = Lake! (Right on, Rav!)

Green = Forest

Yellow = Excellent farmland (fields)

White = Marginal farmland (plains - good grazeland tho)

Gray = Hill country

Black = Mountains

Vertical Stick-thingys = Marsh

Blue squiggleys = Major rivers

All other squigleys = province borders

-=Vel=-

[FrustratedPoet]

/me hangs his head in shame

not only does our great leader cross-post with me, he also gives a much better answer than me ....

he just would ... wouldn't he?

[Velociryx]

Nahhhhh.....no shame, Brother Stoo! Your answer was a good one! LOL...but you and I really *do* seem to cross post a lot!

-=Vel=-

[JMarks]

Ok, now that THAT issue is solved, another question comes to mind. Will one be able to have more than one town/city in a province, or will it be like EU where you only have one, at least in name. Just wondering, cause as an artist, I'd like to see diffenent villages within a province, and eventually mabey overlapping each other when you get a metropolis which covers the whole province. Of course such a city would require tons of grain from all over your realm, or imports that cost some nice cash. But now I'm rambling.

FP, nice avy! Forgot about that one.

[fluffy]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Large Blue Puddle = Lake! (Right on, Rav!)
...

Blue squiggleys = Major rivers

I can see one reason to have a land-locked country: you don't need to think about sea-based units.

This seems to be undermined slightly by lakes and major rivers - are these simply barriers between provinces, or are you planning units that can use these features?

[BigRich]

Originally posted by JMarks
Ok, now that THAT issue is solved, another question comes to mind. Will one be able to have more than one town/city in a province, or will it be like EU where you only have one, at least in name. Just wondering, cause as an artist, I'd like to see diffenent villages within a province, and eventually mabey overlapping each other when you get a metropolis which covers the whole province. *snip*

- that would be cool!

Just a quick thought - how about allowing one major settlement in a Province, starting at Town level (see Societal Model - the original thread). Villages can be added to the Province as Province improvements are added. So if you build a barracks say, you get a Fortified Village. Add a market and you get a Market Hamlet.
All purely cosmetic of course and probably the build queue should still list them as Barracks, or Market to avoid confusion.

Rich.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by fluffy


I can see one reason to have a land-locked country: you don't need to think about sea-based units.

This seems to be undermined slightly by lakes and major rivers - are these simply barriers between provinces, or are you planning units that can use these features?

I think we're only going to have 'naval units' in an abstracted sense.
There was talk amongst us earlier about introducing a 'Harbour' improvement for the lake-bordering provinces that they could build to increase trade ... and I guess we could also allow them to quickly transport units to other provinces that border the lake.

Other than that, I don't think we really want to deal with naval units ... almost all games seem to handle it very badly, mostly because very few people really care about it ...

Naval units are only good for four things in TBS games:

1) Exploration - this is largely irrelevant for Candle'Bre ...

2) Transport - again, not a huge issue if the only body of water is a lake, but this could be included quite easily in an abstracted sense (a bit like the Caravans in HOMM4 if you've played it), there is no need for visible, movable units.

3) Trade - can be easily abstracted, both this and Transport would be good additions to the game IMHO.

4) Combat - well ... we could include this I suppose, but I really don't think the effort it would take it implement and balance would make it an efficient use of our time, since naval combat would be a very tiny part of the overall game experience. Best to leave it out for now IMHO.

(The rivers also come into play during Combat ... in a similar way to Civ3, if you attack a unit that is on the other side of a river to you, then the defenders receive a bonus)