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  • Web Site Discussion and Requests

    At the request of Mark, so the old thread can drop.

    Which design
    Currently we have the two design proposals in the poll thread. If you haven't voted on a design yet, please do so. I'd like to get started building.

    Dynamic web site?
    I've talked to DanQ about getting access to the db and PHP server, so that we can have a dynamic website. This would keep the number of pages to a minimum, allowing us to use a few templates and keep our content seperately. It will make it much easier to make changes across the board, rather than is the case now, doing it page by page. However, it will necessitate PHP and db programming, neither of which I can do, at least now. I'm fully prepared to learn both, however, or we can draft someone else to do that.

    Other issues:
    HTML 4+ or XHTML?

    I suggest using the later since it is XML compatable and standards compliant. Modern browsers will have an easier time with XHTML.

    CSS and layers or tables and frames?
    I'd rather not use frames at all if it can be helped. They slow the loading of pages considerably. I'd like to use tables as little as possible, and only for presenting tabular data, but that may not be possible, depending on the design we use. CSS is a necessity, but combined with layers it's a very powerful tool for layout, not to mention design.

    compatable with old Netscape or fully standards compliant?
    I think we should ignore everything before Netscape 6 and IE 5. Netscape 4.+ is more than five years old now. Upgrade already.

    Site images: high quality or free?
    The images I've used in both comps are high-quality images. They look good and make the site look professional. I will not be part of stealing art for the site, as it not only risks the project, but would also put Apolyton itself at risk (using them in the comps is allowable by the terms of the site from which I pulled them). The alternatives are to scour the net for free images, which are generally quite poor in quality or have an illustrator create new images for us.

    (The images I used were actually rights-managed images, which are prohibitively expensive, unless someone's willing to shell out $1,700+ an image.)

    [edit by Mark, link to poll thread so it doesn't also have to remain on top of the forum]
    Last edited by Mark_Everson; March 24, 2004, 22:50.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

  • #2
    I already voted so I won't comment the design here.

    Definitely don't use frames. I don't like CSS either, but that's OK for me. I don't know what layers are, but if I don't need to do something like enabling/disabling htem, it's OK to use that.
    Old netscape: Maybe redirect old browsers towards the old web saying it is not up to date, but there may still be interesting links there? Also beware some people on Apolyton use Opera. I don't know what Opera supports, but if you test for the browser in the pages, it's better not to kick them out if they can read the pages.

    Images: Well, presented the way you do, we have little choice. How many images would you need/wnat, and what kind? We can probably get a few from scenario designs, like reproductions of paintings or mosaics, which should be quality and free, considering the author of the mosaic is usually dead since a few centuries. I think a portrait of Alexander, and I must have a mosaic of Basil II of Constantinople somewhere. They are not as impressive as photographs of sculptures, but they should be cool. Paintings would be even better.
    Clash of Civilization team member
    (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
    web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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    • #3
      Example image which should be OK to reproduce legally:
      (and yes it is not as flashy as those you showed)
      Attached Files
      Clash of Civilization team member
      (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
      web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

      Comment


      • #4
        Now that I think about it, there are high quality free images on the net, at government sites. We should check these out.

        I just did a rough search for images of Alexander the Great. In addition to the statue in Thessalonika, I came up with mosaics and the sarcophogus in Istanbul. I think this can be done well without violating copyrights.
        Last edited by chequita guevara; January 1, 2003, 20:26.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Web Site Discussion and Requests

          Hi che, thanks for posting the new thread. I will go with your take on most of these issues. I just have a few things to say in response below. Otherwise assume what you said is your preference is ok by me.

          BTW, could you put a link to the old one in your first post up top? Its a Clash standard that allows for easily going back to see the previous discussion on a topic. A link to the design poll thread would be good too.

          Originally posted by chegitz guevara
          compatable with old Netscape or fully standards compliant?
          I think we should ignore everything before Netscape 6 and IE 5. Netscape 4.+ is more than five years old now. Upgrade already.
          I think Laurent's points are good. As you start to roll out new stuff, itd be good to see if anyone is cut out by it before it becomes a big problem. I'm with you that if people don't want to upgrade for 5 years, that's their problem.

          Site images: high quality or free?
          Free and reasonably good quality is what we've had. AFAIK all the images on the existing site are legit. Kull had a CD of images of various sorts that were licensed for use on the web. So if you find something on the current site, it should be legal for our use already.

          If you have trouble finding the stuff that you need free, put out an alert and we can pitch in and try to find things for you. Unless I hear otherwise I'll assume this tack is more-or-less working. OK by you?
          Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
          A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
          Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

          Comment


          • #6
            Opera is standards compliant, BTW, . . . mostly.
            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Re: Web Site Discussion and Requests

              Originally posted by Mark_Everson
              Free and reasonably good quality is what we've had.
              To be honest, I never thought the images that were used fit in with the design of the site..
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • #8
                If someone wishes to shell out $50USA we can get a thre month subscription to www.clipart.com, which has some very good quality photos, royalty free (i.e., free for members). One week for just $7.95 (which is a good deal, if I can grab everything we need that one week).
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi che:

                  Thanks for looking into how to get the images cheaply. I've got no problem springing for $50, that's Much better than the $1700/image figure! Just email me with your address, and the name you want on the check and I'll get it out to you sometime early this week.
                  Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
                  A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
                  Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Will do.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Most of the computers at this school use Netscape 4.79 and of course I don´t have the option of upgrading them. But I can sometimes find a computer with a modern version available, so it shouldn´t be too much of a problem. Still, remember that many are in my situation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The site should still work in older browsers, they just won't look as nice.
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Even in a school you should be able to download Mozilla, the open source version of Netscape, and use that. Where I work they have an old version of Netscape as the standard, and all the power users have switched to Mozilla.

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            MarkG just wrote me and let me know that Clash already has it's own db.

                            I just thought about something though . . . I'll bet we don't have access to a db or php server on the mirror site. What sez you, MarkE?



                            edit: spelling fix
                            Last edited by chequita guevara; January 7, 2003, 13:51.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Che:

                              I'm virtually certain the mirror doesn't have anything fancy available, but I'll check. But if using the db will make your life a lot easier, that's a good reason for abandoning the mirror site if we need to. Apolyton has been pretty stable with the new host, so I don't think its a huge deal to pare back down to the one site.
                              Last edited by Mark_Everson; January 6, 2003, 21:02.
                              Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
                              A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
                              Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

                              Comment

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