Countdown to D5

[Gary Thomas]

This thread is to record the final progress toward the release of Demo 5, and any issues relevant to that.

I feel that D5 should be at least to the standard of D4. To achieve this the following things need to be done:

1. Test the terrain modification, and link the terrain to images.

2. Finish and test the unit movement system (Laurent and I are both working on parts of that).

3. Make sure the combat system works.

4. Add a few more minor orders to the unit orders submenu (cancel orders for example).

5. Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

6. Build a model for an actual player (at present there are civilizations, but no players).

7. Provide some sort of AI (probably a port of the D4 version) for non-player civilizations.

8. Make sure that there is adequate feedback to the player on events during a move.

9. All the things I have forgotten.

This list looks significant, but if I listed all the things that have been done it would look small.

As things are got working, I will check them off this list.

I hope that 1 and 2 can be fixed in this coming week. I am thinking about 7.

Cheers

[RonHiler]

Woohoo! Looking forward to seeing it, guys. Y'all have been too long without a new demo.

Let me know how #7 goes. I'm dealing with combat AI right now for our game, and it's a total nightmare! . We're using a multi-tiered AI, which passes general orders down, and they get more specific at each level (from the top level, which is basically "Attack" or "Run Away" all the way down to the bottom level, which is "Advance unit to x,y" or "Shoot at enemy unit z"). We're using neural nets to do the actual decision making at each level. I'm using a lot of fuzzy inputs to provide some sense of randomness (but then you have to add in a momentum factor to prevent oscillations, arrrrgg!).

At least the combat AI has some partial player control. Let me tell you, I'm not looking forward to trying to program the computer player AI, heh.

What sort of system are you using? I'd be really interested to know how you guys are handling AI.

Ron

[Mark_Everson]

Gary:

Thanks for the synopsis!

I'd rather not wait for AI. A direct port of the d4 stuff would require Significant effort since the whole program structure has changed. And its something I did as a kludge anyway, and most of it will not contribute to the final version. So I would prefer to have a Very simple quasi-AI (random teleporting barbarian attacks or something) for d5 and that's it. We can discuss more when I return for vacation if you like.

Ron:

For what the plans are for AI look on the web page under "AI" and also under "Map AI"

[Gary Thomas]

The present state:

1. DONE. Test the terrain modification, and link the terrain to images.

2. Finish and test the unit movement system (Laurent and I are both working on parts of that).

3. Make sure the combat system works.

4. Add a few more minor orders to the unit orders submenu (cancel orders for example).

5. Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

6. Build a model for an actual player (at present there are civilizations, but no players).

7. REDUCED TO A RUDIMENTARY FORM, see Marks post. Provide some sort of AI (probably a port of the D4 version) for non-player civilizations.

8. Make sure that there is adequate feedback to the player on events during a move.

9. All the things I have forgotten.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

This is a thinly disguised bump.

The movement system is getting very near finished. As can be seen in the military movement thread I have a couple of small problems, not so much with movement, as with displaying it in the GUI.

Cheers.

[Gary Thomas]

There have been complications. There are now six different input states for the system.

For the map:

1. The "normal" mode. We are not doing anything special yet.

2. The "move" mode. We have clicked the move button and want to use the mouse for optimized move tracking.

3. The arrows mode. We have pressed one arrow key, and subsequent arrow keys must be added to that one (rather than replacing it).

For task forces:

4. The popup menu task force mangement mode.

5. The keboard oriented task force management mode.

6. The one button mouse click task force management mode.

Modes 1, 2 and 3 can switch around in a very confusing manner (for example, what happens if someone is using the mouse to check out paths, then presses an arrow key? or if someone wants to cancel a series of arrow keys, what do they do?).

This was getting a bit hard to handle so I have been writing an input mode system. Should be done soon. I am currently out of work which means I can spend a lot of time on Clash.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

The present state:

1. DONE. Test the terrain modification, and link the terrain to images.

2. DONE. Finish and test the unit movement system.

3. Make sure the combat system works.

4. Add a few more minor orders to the unit orders submenu (cancel orders for example).

5. Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

6. Build a model for an actual player (at present there are civilizations, but no players).

7. AI REDUCED TO A RUDIMENTARY FORM, see Marks post. Provide some sort of AI (probably a port of the D4 version) for non-player civilizations.

8. Make sure that there is adequate feedback to the player on events during a move.

9. All the things I have forgotten. Tidy up the unit selection system in movement.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

The present state:

1. DONE. Test the terrain modification, and link the terrain to images.

2. DONE. Finish and test the unit movement system.

3. DONE. Make sure the combat system works.

4. DONE. Add a few more minor orders to the unit orders submenu (cancel orders for example).

5. (D6?) Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

6. DONE. Build a model for an actual player (at present there are civilizations, but no players).

7. AI REDUCED TO A RUDIMENTARY FORM, see Marks post. Provide some sort of AI (probably a port of the D4 version) for non-player civilizations.

8. Make sure that there is adequate feedback to the player on events during a move.

9. All the things I have forgotten. Tidy up the unit selection system in movement.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

The present state:

1. DONE. Test the terrain modification, and link the terrain to images.

2. DONE. Finish and test the unit movement system.

3. DONE. Make sure the combat system works.

4. DONE. Add a few more minor orders to the unit orders submenu (cancel orders for example).

5. (D6?) Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

6. DONE. Build a model for an actual player (at present there are civilizations, but no players).

7. DONE AI REDUCED TO A not totally RUDIMENTARY FORM. Provide some sort of AI for non-player civilizations.

8. Make sure that there is adequate feedback to the player on events during a move.

9. All the things I have forgotten.
Tidy up the unit selection system in movement.
Test the system thoroughly.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

Bit off topic, but I want to get it on record so Mark can go crook about it.

Plans for D6.

These are the immediate things I intend to do for D6, more or less in order:

1. Make the map larger and scrollable.

2. Provide for a world map.

3. Get rid of Xerces (the XML scanner). I like Laurent's XML stuff and will use that as the basis, but recode the very small part of Xerces that we need.

4. Make all the currently hard coded data into XML files.

5. Build the tech stuff (written and working, though the data isn't yet available) in.

6. Work on the government and social stuff.

7. Make a consistent list of available commands. Make the commands available through key strokes.

8. And, as always, everything else I have forgotten.

Cheers

[Locutus]

Wow, looks like you guys are actually getting close Good thing too, 'cause I don't know if I can wait much longer: I wanna play!

Originally posted by Gary Thomas
5. (D6?) Implement Mark's alternative TF manipulation system.

If you can postpone it to D6, please do! People have been waiting for D5 for way too long already... Besides, if I were you guys I would try to release D5 before Civ3 ships (or at least not right after it's release) or you could find yourselves with a severe lack of interest

[Mark_Everson]

Gary: 'go crook' ? What the heck does that mean so I can do it

I'll hold off on my comments on D6 'till we have a dedicated thread. Want to start it with your comments above?

Hi Locutus -- I'm with you and Gary, 'my' system can easily wait for D6. Its just time to get D5 out.

[Gary Thomas]

Gary: 'go crook' ? What the heck does that mean so I can do it

Can't you understand plain Kiwi? It means whinge.

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Awwww, do I haaaave to whine to keep you haappy? I'd much rather criticize

[Gary Thomas]

Not whine but "whinge", "complain", "object", "find fault" and all those things that project directors do so well.

D5 has hit a minor but maddening glitch. I am having trouble getting the TF panel scroll bars to work. I am darned if I can see what is wrong. This is only relevant if you have a lot of units in a square, and even then the panel can be enlarged to see all of them. However, there is a matter of principle involved.

Now go crook.

Cheers