The Clash Forum Guestbook

[Starfighter08]

I'd like to add my two cents too

1. Tech

The model you described on your web page (3 levels etc.) sounds promising. Especially because even old inventions are constantly improved (nobody would use a wheel like the Romans had for his Ferrari).

2. Ecology

I like the idea of different climates. Also ecology is known (at least should be by now) to be a complex system (deforestation should have effects downstream etc.). Human actions, especially in modern time have quite an impact on the ecology, which in turn acts on the humans (more cancer etc.)

3. Age of the population

You could do a trick be saying that only a certain part (~50%?) is actually active workforce, but the others need also food etc.

4. Map

Cylander is ok for me. A flat map would be good for scenarios (mediterran for antique, pacific FE for WW2 etc.)

5. Military

Both should be possible. There are still people who like micromanagement (like me).

More answers

A. Number of classes

5

B. Which classes?

Upper class, mid class (craftsmen, artists, local merchants etc.), low class, clergy (with relations to where these people actually come from: uc, mc, lc) and the same for military.

C. Ruler power

should depend on the form of gov't.
tight: tyranny, monarchie, theocracy, dictatorship....
shared with others: oligarchy, aristocracy, republic, democracy

D. Nomad civ

While you're a nomad the other civs improve in tech, economy, etc. and you stay behind. Thats the reason why we don't live as nomads any more. However it could be interesting for some scenarions (Mongols, Fall of Roman Empire)

E. Inherent stability of the empire

Should be more unstable at the beginning and improve with tech, infrastructure

F. Disasrers/diseases

Good if it's implemented like you discribed it in the model. High difficulty setting shouldn't mean that the player is the victim more often that the AI players. BTW: That's something I really HATE about civ-type games: The higher the difficulty setting the worse is the starting location. When I choose high difficulty I want the AI to be smart, but not to cheat, arrrgh. (Maybe the player should be able to decide, how much the AI shall cheat once he needs a greater challenge).

G. Tech level difference between provinces

Maybe a delay until tech becomes available in far away provinces depending on tech level (communication), infrastructure and of course trade activities.

H. Ethnic groups

Adds a great deal of realism and also new challenges to the game.

I. Internal affairs

Ethnic conflicts (also religious ones) have been a major issue all the time.

J. Close to history (0-10)

9. Look at the tech tree of CTP2, it's completly screwed up. This really p..... me off. Anyway it should still have some flexibility to reflect the circumstances a civ is in (long times of war, lacking of resources, island civ etc.)

K. Sci-fi, fantasy

The game shouldn't end 2000AD. Thats something I didn't like about Civ1/2. At least there should be techs of near future. Even if the future techs of CTP1 are really Sci-fi I liked them very much. Personally I'd like to see techs of colonizing the solar system, because once a player has reached this age the world has become a village. Even far away provinces are now closer, so a very far away colony in space would allow to explore, settle, conquer new territories. Also these colonies could use the independence war/guerilla model for things like a "mars rebellion" in B5. These things would also increase the importance of Sky-/Spacetroops. BTW don't forget ocean cities.

As for fantasy I'd like to use these econ, gov't, social models to build a "Master of Magic" scenario which is better than that of Civ2. Greek mythology scens would also be cool.

L. Pirates

They add a completely new flawor to the game. In times of war the civs sell letters of marque to pirates and they raid the traffic lanes of the enemy. Of course pirates are not 100% reliable. And once the war ends there are still pirates around who need "employment" (now try to get rid of them). Civs could cooperate (treaty) to patrol trade routes. There where many famous pirates in history (Francis Drake, Henry Morgan etc.) who would make an excellent place to use that character model of yours. FE Civ pays Pirates conquer a city and run it while being (secretly) allied with that civ (Port Royal, Tortuga etc.).

[Starfighter08]

Even more answers

1a nice improvement of CTP2
1b hu?
2a very much
2b having an alter ego sounds cool (goody: castle/throne room like civ1/2 and being able to walk inside of them and having meetings with advisors/emissaries. hey just an idea)
2c what about elections based on approvement of the different classes to your policies, if the player should loose he could still be the military leader while the AI runs the civ till the next elections; being not so patient or loosing several elections the player could still start a military coup, or if he isn't powerful enough lead an independence war with provinces that tend to have these feelings (why only being the victim of such tings and not trying them too,muahahah?)
2d for the important ones
3a integral part, the decisions of individuals shaped history and still do so
3b .....
3c .....

[Richard Bruns]

Thanks for the feedback!

[hendrr]

After lurking for a week and reading a ream of printed out forums, I finally registered today and THEN found this forum (I came in via the technology forum). I will leave short answers to the questions (then go back to reading the other ream of current forum printouts).

Richard Bruns
1) RPG.

2) ... ecology model changes the landscape in realistic ways ...

3) I know it will difference, just don't know what now.

4) cube.

5) moving units around the squares yourself

roquijad
A) 4-5

B) (I think social classes has been thrashed enough)

C) like to experience less control (lifelike).

D) "nomadic civ" might be interesting for a while, but not if you are interested in world domination.

E) As long as I had forewarning of the impending disaster AND alternatives provided to me, this is acceptable.

F) disasters and diseases add fun? I guess as an additional challenge (as if building a civilization wasn't enough).

G) Yes. This would be very interesting from a "lifelike" perspective.

H) ethnicities

I) Yes I like having to deal with internal conflicts

J) historical accuracy? 9

K) Not a whole lot.

L) pirates? Yes at the units level (I know, the dreaded word ).


Well, back to lurking and reading the volumes of information on Clash.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi hendrr, welcome to the Clash forums! Thanks for your input, and feel free to comment in more detail when you feel motivated in the other threads.

-Mark

[Simon Loverix]

1)Tree or RPG?
Aimed research should be possible only when the experimental method can be applied and when a group is willing to invest in the research. However, even at the present research budgets are rather limited ; for example 50% of the Belgian national budget is spent on education, but only a fraction of it is for research subsidies. Consequently, the main research contribution should come from RPG, with the option of directing funds to additional research, eg for particle accelerators, which have little practical use .

2)Ecology?
Civilizations are deeply influenced by terrain. It defines their cultural outlook and their possibilities and limits for development.

3)Ethnicity?
I see ethnicity as an attribute of social groups. These might eventually merge if the differences have become small enough. It must be simplified anyway: look at a population map of the Balkan and you see what I mean. It would be something for the province level.
The effects of migration will be very interesting if this is worked out well.

4)Kind of map?
Stick to the cylinder, but modify it to correct the deformation at the poles on a Mercator projection. For example, if 20° at the equator equals 20 squares, then 20° at the poles could equal 15 squares.

5) How much detail do you want in the military movements?
Its a pain in the wrists to move all 'units' manually. I'd rather set a general strategy (eg guerilla, blitzkrieg), tactic (eg ambush, overrun) and list of priorities (eg cities x and y, obtain defensible position, conquer continent z) and let the AI do the dirty work. This makes it possible to work with an exact manpower for each square and keeps the number of instructions of the player low, also towards the end of the game.

[Simon Loverix]

A) Clash population will be divided in social classes (the aristocracy, the clergy, etc). How many would you like to see in a typical game?
B) What social classes you think must be there in the typical whole-history game?
D) Do you find interesting/fun to play a "nomadic civ"? That is, a moving civ with no cities that could eventually settle down. For example, playing the germans as a nomadic tribe for a while and then settle at some point in history.
H) Do you like having population divided in ethnicities or you'd prefer the civ2-like approach where people is all homogeneous?
I) Do you like having to deal with internal conflicts such as struggles between religions, between ethnicities, between social classes?
L) Do you want to see pirates and the like in the game? If so, how detailed?

See also my previous message.
Here's a proposal:

Economic Religious Ruling Military

3 Upper class Fugger pope president general
ayatollah emperor
2 Middle class trader bishop aristocracy captain
poorter imam senator
1 Lower class craftsman lay clerk sergeant
mercenary
0 Peasant worker heathen citizen recrute
farmer
-1 Outcasts beggar excommunicated rebel deserter
pirate 'fatwa'ed anarchist

These are four classes, with examples of the ranks in that class.
Additional classes could be Academic, Labor Union or something else, if they have an considerable impact on society (in the game rules or that particular game).
Each social group should have a ranking in each class. Rankings in the classes correlate (mainly with the economic class) the ruling upper class is rarely economic outcast or military 'peasant' class.
If the game starts at the time of the first cities, you start with only 4 social groups: 0 to 3 in economic class. Otherwise, you

C) Being the ruler of your civ, do you want to have always a tight control of the civ's govt decisions or would you like to experience less control in regimes where the ruler isn't really all powerful in real life?
E) How internally stable you think empires should be along the thousands of years of play?

The ruler is in fact ruling upper class. Could it be possible to start the game as any social group ? The player then first has to obtain ruler class 3. After that, he can be usurped and afterwards regain the throne. This would also become intriguing when a society evolves to democracy, when a player has to struggle to regain office, remain popular and cleaning up the mess those other, incompetent groups made.

F) Do you think having disasters and deseases add fun to the game?
They make it interesting, otherwise development is almost always linear.

G) Do you find interesting/fun if the available techs aren't the same in each of your civ's provinces?
This ought to be reflected in infrastructure that is (not yet) built.

J) How much do you care about historical accuracy in a 0-10 scale?
I do care about the outline but not about the detail. A good system generates plausible situations.

K) How important you consider Clash being able to model non-historical scenarios such as fantasy games or sci-fi stuff?
That's for version 2.0.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Simon, thanks for the feedback and ideas.

Much of what you suggest on the govt/social end is already in the plan, although not in exactly the ways you mentioned. If you're interested in more details check out the govt and social models on the web page, and the forum threads you can get to from there. We'd certainly like to hear what you think in more detail.

-Mark

[Ceci n'est pas Snapcase]

Hi. I'm Snapcase, applicant for the News Editor position, and probably winner of that position because, frankly, there is only one other active candidate and MarkG has proposed splitting the job between the two of us. I will occationally monitor the Clash forums in search of interesting news to report, so get that Demo 5 out soon, d'y'hear?

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Snapcase:

Thanks for letting us know you will be looking in... But you'll have to wait for demo 5 just like all our other customers .

[LDiCesare]

bump

[manurein]

Hi all!
Maybe some of you remember me...

Just wanted u to know that i'm really looking forward to see demo 5 in action!!

So when is demo 5 shipping???

Anyway, good job and keep the pressure!!

Manu

[Mark_Everson]

Hi manu! Great to hear from you. The current guess for D5 is in a couple of weeks.

[Mark_Everson]

bump

[Dale]

** Morphs out of the forum wall where I was lurking **

Must say, looking forward to seeing Demo 5. I'm designing a civ-style game myself and am very interested to see how some of the models you guys have worked out play, since some of my models are very similar.