Unit Graphics

[Mark_Everson]

Thanks for the info Shaun. If we do decide that an alpha channel is vital there are java add-ons that allow graphics formats other than gif and jpg. Tiffs have already been heavily discussed earlier in development. But if we stick with the power circles then you already know whose unit is whose and alpha channels seem less important.

[Fiera]

Sorry I haven't showed up before, every time I tried to post the server seemed to be busy...

First of all, great to have you working on the graphic side of Clash, Shaun! Hopefully we'll be able to work faster and better now that you're here. The more talented people working on the art, the better will Clash look in the end.

I like very much what you've done so far. I wouldn't say that the difference of styles is irresolvable. However there are some things I just can't do the way I work, since I don't use Lightwave or any 3D program: providing consistent different orientations for the same figure, at least not without putting lots of hours in.

So if that's something everyone would like to have, perhaps we could work together on each unit. For an eaxample of what I mean, it would be interesting if you could have my warrior or phalanx icon, and "import" it into lightwave, or simply try to draw a similar figure. Then we could work again on the figure you got with Lightwave, giving it the final touches.

I'm not sure I made myself clear enough , but anyway I'd like to try some joint efforts on units before thinking about dividing the graphical work in areas.

Now, to some minor points:

the one caveat to this image is that while it IS a gif it undoubtedly consumes many more colours than will be available which will lose a little subtelty in the final images

I'm not sure but we haven't talked anything about palette limitations. Mark will know better than me, but at least each of my units have been done with independent palettes, and that hasn't been a problem so far.

Regarding the size and scale, I agree with Mark, having smaller horsemen than foot troops looks weird when put together.

Also, Gary, I'd love to see those Osprey books pics. If you like, you can mail them to me at jgv@edinoesis.com

[shaunfletcher]

hi fiera

Ill think more about possible processes for working as a team and try and come up with some ideas when im not at work! what springs to mind as a possibility is something like you doing a first draft, I model that in lightwave and produce first renders, you comment on that, I update it etc till we like it then I pass it to you and you fiddle with the image.. Ill think more later anyway.

on the palette thing.. I just assumed all the graphics would need to be on one palette but if they dont that is great news as it frees things up delightfully.

Shaun

[Mark_Everson]

Gentlemen:

That sounds like a great way to work together on the unit images! And it certainly leaves us with the max flexibility in terms of orientations. I hope it works out .

I really don't know for a fact the java palette limitations with many gifs each with their own palette. I think the only technical limitation we're left with is that for each image. Since there are Plenty of colors to go around at 16k or whatever colors. Anyone know for sure? We could do a test of some sort if needed.

-Mark

[LDiCesare]

Hi Fiera, Shaun.
I'd like a catapult unit, and/or an archer.
Since I should be providing naval units, and we have a trireme, a galley could be an idea.
I think Mark's idea of a different warrior would be good. That would mean I have to manage image/unit mapping civ-wise, but that is quite easy to do.

[Gary Thomas]

I really don't know for a fact the java palette limitations with many gifs each with their own palette. I think the only technical limitation we're left with is that for each image. Since there are Plenty of colors to go around at 16k or whatever colors. Anyone know for sure? We could do a test of some sort if needed.

Java converts the GIF palette to RGB values on input, so there is no need to worry about palette limitations as there used to be in the bad old days.

Since I should be providing naval units, and we have a trireme, a galley could be an idea.

A trireme is a galley.

A straight transport ship ("round ship") would be nice though. Triremes weren't used for transport.

Cheers

[shaunfletcher]

presumably a ship wouldnt want be to scale with the ground units as that would cover maybe 20 squares

I will have time tonight to fiddle with some things, initially Ill try and do some to a common scale to see how it comes across.

It really IS great news on the palettes, that will allow some subtlety

Shaun

[shaunfletcher]

btw gary, what part of new zealand are you in?

[Gary Thomas]

I only just noticed your address!

You missed the bit where I puzzled Mark by using the expression "go crook at". Nice to have someone else who (presumably) understands proper English.

I am in Palmerston North, but I have been working in Wellington. I am a contractor (well, an unemployed contractor) and could wind up in Auckland. Of course I will need to get a job for that.

Cheers

[shaunfletcher]

yeah I used to be a contractor too till I got to be an unemployed contractor (plenty of those about these days) for a few weeks and took a proper job.

sweet as eh?

Shaun

[Fiera]

Thanks for those pics, Gary. They look great.

BTW, the artist is Angus McBride, isn't he?

Originally posted by shaunfletcher
Ill think more about possible processes for working as a team and try and come up with some ideas when im not at work! what springs to mind as a possibility is something like you doing a first draft, I model that in lightwave and produce first renders, you comment on that, I update it etc till we like it then I pass it to you and you fiddle with the image..

Yes, that should work. Let's make our first attempt with a Republican times Roman legion, I'll take a first draft from the pics Gary sent me. The only thing is, should I do it in a reduced size (as the unit icons I made for demo5) or maybe in a bigger size so you can better model it in lightwave?

[shaunfletcher]

any size is fine, Id be using it for reference on mainly the uniform and most importantly the pose. look forward to seeing it!

Shaun

[shaunfletcher]

hi guys.. just letting you know I havent forgotten you, just had a very busy couple of evenings with an urgent graphic for another project.. Ive got a half done archer that ill finish tonight for y'all to have a look at.

also got some ides for terrain tile graphics if anyones interested in having a look?

just for interest, here is what has been occupying my time. we cant use this specific graphic for this project as its going to belong to others, but I can use the basic model and mod it if theres any interest in a 17th-18th century musketeer



Shaun

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Shaun:

Sure, I'd be interested in seeing some ideas, whatever you come up with. That way we can all criticize, er, see and discuss your approaches to the art issues for Clash.

[Gary Thomas]

Anything happening here?

Cheers