Artwork Forum

[Ratspike]

Art Direction

Well, I tought I would introduce my self (Edward Bryant) and say hello to everyone. Hello. Now, with that out of the way I wanted to offer up my services creating artwork for Clash. I'll be going around to the other sections trying to find places where some artwork is needed. If your section is reaching the point where they need either permanant or mock-up artwork please let me know and I would be happy to try to create something for you.

If you have any requests/questions email me at "bryant_edward@hotmail.com"

Or you could post them here and I'll keep trying to check back in.

I will also start posting status on any artwork for the game, as well as, concept sketches and the like as they become available.

Thanks

Ed

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Ed, I'd like to give you the official Clash hearty welcome!

Welcome!

Others:

In case its not clear to others from the above, Ratspike/Ed is our provisional new lead for non-map art. He'll be trying to get a unified look to the non-map art, and also coordinate with Fiera so that the map and other stuff looks good together. So please work with him on art that you think will be needed for your respective models. We'll try to give priority to the stuff we need for demo 6, but even before that trying to come up with a general flavor is probably the first order of business.

Ed, have you seen the 3-d stuff Richard just showed off in the map graphics thread? As I suggested in that thread, perhaps some of that stuff could serve as backdrops for character governors etc. One thing you could start on soon are some general backdrops and borders for the various frames in the game.

Glad to have you on board!,

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Everson (edited May 14, 2001).]

[Gary Thomas]

I have been trying to find the time to create a general Clash logo to put it on the first menu (Scenario selection) in the demo. I am delighted to find someone to pass this on to. I had in mind a collage of scenes representing the march of civilization (the Eiffel tower featured large, which is strange considering that it added nothing to civilization).

We really do need a catchy logo to generally identify the whole project, and in addition , an introductory splash screen.

Can this be arranged?

Cheers.

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Gary, we've already got one...


We talked a Long time ago about a multi-paneled approach like you're suggesting. Our artist at that time talked me out of it, and into something spare and immediately identifiable like the one above. The old thread is Here: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum21/HTML/000060.html if anyone is interested in reading the old discussions.

Just as a practical matter, if we were going to go with something new, we'd need to identify the overall art style Before we do the logo so that it fits.

[Richard Bruns]

I tried to avoid the dirty/worn-out look when rendering the buildings. I think that if a player puts a lot of time and effort into building something, it should look impressive and brand new. A freshly built building or soldier shouldn't look worn out. I think our "general style" should be one that conveys the grandeur of civilization. Not light, but realistic, like the reproductions you see in history books.

However, it would be very cool if things started to get worn out as they got old. Perhaps we could draw all the stuff so it looks new, but write programs that fade the paint or add soot over time. Is that feasable?

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Ed, thanks for the detailed 'framing' discussion. I have to admit I think dark is a major loser, and I have my doubts about dirty too... IMO dirty wouldn't fit well at all with Fiera's unit and map graphics either, since they're rather 'clean'. But lets see what others have to say. A sample of the sort of styles you'd be willing to work with would help people form opinions also!

Richard, we had a simul-post... I agree with the first part of what you say. I think clean-to-dirty is just too expensive a transition to talk much about when our goal realistically for the next year is just to get one piece of art for everything... Its an intriguing concept, but another one of those for Clash 3.0 I think!

[This message has been edited by Mark_Everson (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Fiera]

Hi, Edward, and welcome in!

As Mark has already pointed out, I'm working on the Map graphics. To see what I've got so far, check the last two Map graphics threads. You'll quickly see what general direction I've decided to take here:
http://www.geocities.com/fiera_com/demo.html

Please tell me what you think (preferably in the Map Graphics thread).

I think that my graphics belong to your #4 example (light/friendly) mostly. Anyways, if I had to choose one among the four types you listed, I'd go doubtlessly for the light/friendly look, since Clash players, like those of any Civ game, are expected to literally spend hundreds of hours in front of their screens, so dark graphics will be a downer, since most people will find staring at them tiresome.

However, I don't think that a combination of light Map graphics plus dark/gritty interface borders would necessarilly look bad. As a matter of a fact, there should be a definite contrast between the game map and the menus, dialog boxes, etc. Civ2 and Age of Civilizations were, IMO, games with this kind of contrast I'm talking about, while Call to Power and, as it seems, the incoming Civ3, aren't.

I agree with you in good custom art looking more professional than history clips, especially for a game like this, that will cover 6000 or more years of history. There's no way in which you could use art clips of diferent ages and cultures and yet get a "uniform" look for the game. I say we should go for custom and original art, even if it's more work. It will be worth it. Let's give Clash a unique look.

Looking forward to hear your opinions and see your work,

Fiera.

[Ratspike]

I agree that an overall look is the most important first step. I'll start by listing off some examples of the directions we can go. PLEASE if anyone has other ideas pitch them.

1. Dark/Dirty: I am sure everyone is aware of this general look. It seems to be the favorite of a lot of games, art, etc. The pros are that is always gives a mistique of coolness to most things. Other considerations are that it seems to match the military aspect of the game more than others (e.g., the feel of progress, trade, etc.) Some examples might be showing a solider all battle worn instead of in a new uniform or a large dirty factory instead of a crisp picture of a new building. This would present a much more "real" look, but perhaps at the expense of a more upbeat mood.

2. History 101/Clip-Art: This direction would involve using historical art and photographs that are in the public domain and perhaps making some changes in size color shading etc. This is the fastest most economical way to go (also the least creative and the least amount of work for me.) I think this is the best option for filling in areas temporaily but misses the opportunity to try something unique.

3. Neutral/mix: This would sort of be what you would get if you progressed without making a defined choice and let each instance of artwork be in its own style/mood. Its allows the most freedom for each individual peice but runs the risk of looking unplanned or unorganized. It can, however, work if other style choices are adhered to like a particular color palette or a style of drawing, etc.

4. Light/Friendly: This would be a neat and clean sort of look that plays opposite to the dark/dirty look above. It would include the use of lighter/brighter primary colors. If done wrong, it runs the risk of looking cartoony and simple.


Be aware that these can be somewhat mixed together. The prime example would be Civ II. The overall look was neutral. They used history/clip art for the wonder movies. They unit design was pretty light and friendly.

Personally, I like the idea of the dirtier more gritty look than games such as civ but not as dark as some others. I also would avoid the the clip art look (custom art, if done well, looks much more professional). I would use history clip art and photos heavily for reference but not use them directly.

Feedback? please!

Ed

[Ratspike]

I thought I would also lay out a general artwork attack plan.

1. Decide on a general look and or proper mix of looks for the game.
2. Decide on a central color palette based on step 1.
3. Design a new or decide to keep the current logo based on step 1.
4. Prioritize the areas where artwork is needed.
5. Start concept sketching, post, get feedback, wash, repeat . . .

Once step 4 is reached I will try to recruit other artists to increase the speed and output.

Ed

[Simon Loverix]

Hi Ed,

for the parts of the graphics that remain the same during the whole game, I would use solid materials that have been used throughout history: stone, metal, marble. Since they're used for important buildings (pyramids, palaces,..) they have a respectable air, suitable for the 'ruler' of the civ.
It would make the interface look architectural. That gives some depth to the screen and pictures can be included like frescoes (which are light and friendly-colored).

For general screen layout I would opt for a 'movie view', below and maybe above a border of 'tools'(like SMAC). A rectangular area conforms more to the natural view and the absence of edges at the sides gives a feeling of continuity.

[Ratspike]

I just wanted to give an update.

I am preparing some concept sketches of the different styles we have been talking about. I'll do a single page on each with a few different elements on each (e.g., some interface border, character protrait, etc.). So, while those are being prepared, maybe we should move ahead and form a list of which parts of the game need the artwork first.

interface? chacter/governer protraits? Wonders? etc.

[Mark_Everson]

Sounds good.

My guess for the best fit for something that would be both a good test for all the art, and something we will have fairly soon is the government interface (or perhaps technology). But neither is well-specified yet... we are waiting to see what players actually use most before we specify the final interfaces. So in the meantime how about using a generic interface with an advisor picture, kind of like the image at the top of this thread: http://clash.apolyton.net/models/int...interface.html but of course much more aesthetically appealing.

I will think about it some more. In the meantime we'll see what you think, and see what ideas others can come up with.