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**Mark_Everson** · July 29, 2000, 09:21

Thanks for pushing forward on the scenario thing. I tried the ancient Egypt one, but there wasn't much information in it in terms of all the cultures etc.. Is there once scenario that has a more complete coverage for the "easy start" option? That way I wouldn't have to add a whole bunch of things by hand...

I also ran into something that you may or may not know about. My notion was since it takes a couple minutes for the thing to come up, I would go do some other stuff in a different IE window while I was loading. But it never loaded under those circumstances.

**F_Smith** · July 29, 2000, 10:42

Mark:

So far, the '6000bc' one has the most saved data. Egypt and Greece have a little.

The frame is indeed tied to the Browser, I believe that changing to another page in the browser will cancel the loading of that applet. I wasn't sure if I should make the browser frame the 'parent' frame of the game frame, because this would mean that closing the game frame would close the browser (the way it was before now). Should I go back to that?

I just finished debugging the XML loader last night, and making the cosmetic changes. I kinda like the frame approach, with the pull-down menus. More room for on-screen info. I think I'm going to stick with it, if there are no objections.

Tonight I'll flesh out a few more scenarios and add the ability to define the objects in depth.

**Mark_Everson** · July 29, 2000, 10:56

I figured that was the case on the load, just thought I'd mention it. I'd like at least nearly full screen also.

Personally I think one complete scenario is enough. I'd much rather see some real meat on the government model before any further scenarios, so we can begin testing the gov model. I also think having a zillion scenarios there, but with no explanation of the status of any of them, will just frustrate people trying it out.

Just my vote...

**Mark_Everson** · July 30, 2000, 08:16

One more request... Can you put up a zip of the source every once in awhile. It is a pain grabbing everything by hand. In fact so much of a pain that I only grabbed one class.

**F_Smith** · July 31, 2000, 00:17

There's now a zip file with all the source code available from the page.

There's also a downloadable zip file for running the app from your machine.

It works on my machine, but as before, there might be some differences from platform to platform that only ya'll can tell me about.

P.S. -- the 'scenario' files have to be underneath whatever directory the class files are in, in a "/scenario" directory. The application will read any .scn files in that directory and put those on the frame to be loaded.

The 'applet' still uses hard-coded file names for those buttons.

**F_Smith** · August 1, 2000, 17:12

*Note*

What is up now is not a finished release -- it is there for debugging purposes only.

I am aware not all of the Ruler Govt Preferences and Cultural Attributes will be %'s. I'll finish that. And no, the 'Ruler' data does not yet save, and the Cultural Attributes can not be stored.

Another night or two.

But then we'll be able to begin to 'play' a stripped-down 'govt' game, where you try and manipulate the govt via the ruler (with -- or in spite of -- the will of the people!!!). Then we can begin to hammer out the finished details of this model.

Another week, or two, at the most, and we can likely move on to another model.

**Mark_Everson** · August 1, 2000, 20:49

I tried it out... can't wait for the one where you can see the numbers evolving! One request, when you enter numbers for the government attributes you allow 0-95%, you need to add 100%, at least I didn't see a 100%.

I will check out the zip to look at the design patterns you are using. Laurent and I are going to try to bang the Econ model for demo 5 into shape using MVC and some of your other suggestions. What we'll probably do (I haven't heard back from Laurent yet) is just have the new Econ model ride on top of the old code, without influencing it first. If all goes well then we can let the new Econ model take over its full functions a bit at a time. So if you want to enter any opinions on the major direction of the Econ model structure, speak up soon. We will try to post what we are doing as we go along so you can kibitz.

So perhaps the Econ model can be the next

**F_Smith** · August 1, 2000, 21:55

I'll fix that, thanks.

I wasn't thinking -- I did 20 iterations of 5% each, but starting at 0. Needed 21. I hate that 'zero' based thing, I goof it up all the time!

And I know they're not all going to be 0-100. I've only written that one widget. Just wanted to test it online.

I can't wait to work in the econ model. If you use any kind of MVC approach, it'll be simple to merge that into this code.

I'm off to wrestle this beast into submission . . .

**F_Smith** · August 1, 2000, 22:35

This might be a good time to post a:

Standard Disclaimer

Anytime you're reading code I wrote, keep in mind:

BIG

**Mark_Everson** · August 2, 2000, 07:13

Hmmm.... Please try to comment as much as possible, at least in the areas where others are going to Need to understand what you are doing. Part of the collaboration thingy ya know

PS We keep getting questions as to why java and why not C++ blah blah blah (just got one in an email today). It would be useful to have a page on the web page 'Why Java?'. You are much more awary of many technical issues that I don't get. Are you game to organize some of your previous posts into a page of text?

**F_Smith** · August 2, 2000, 10:09

Mark:

I know, I need to comment more. I typically go back after the whole thing is done and begin to add comments. It shouldn't be a big deal for the DataModel and View code, since I used the MVC approach, usually the code is self-explanatory. For the 'controller' code (the turn-handlers and factories, mostly), I'll try and remember to comment more.

And sure, I'll put something together when I get a chance on Java v. C++.

**F_Smith** · August 3, 2000, 01:12

Okay:

We're getting pretty close, now.

Each civ has a govt.

You can define a ruler, with govt preferences.

You can click the 'turn' button, watch one year go by. There's a turn handler system in place, altho all it does right now is set the tax rate to whatever the ruler's pref was, and add one year to the game date.

You can define a culture's attributes. Those will be used in churning the turn cycle.

Next I flesh out the populace more, and work their ideologies into determining the govt policies.

And then add in 'Special Orders' the ruler can use.

Only a few more hurdles . . .

Intersting Side Note: I used a 'GregorianCalendar' object to track the date, and was told that IE can not accept dates prior to 4716 bc.

**Mark_Everson** · August 3, 2000, 07:13

Sounds like fun's a'comin'

BTW, Rodrigo hasn't been able to access the web for the last while, that's why we haven't heard from him.

GregorianCalendar LOL!

It just not Y5KBC compliant

**axi** · August 3, 2000, 09:04

I'm adding a link in page 2 for functionality purposes:
http://home.austin.rr.com/lostmercha...ashEditor.html

Now, I'm back for just a day, so I'm not able to see or say much but, here I go:

Good things I saw:

1) The downloadable version of the beast opens nicely with the batch file.

2) The beast loads much-much faster now that it's local, but I have opened it online too and it's loading somewhat faster there too.

3) The evil fullscreen is gone and the interior looks damn good now. I love the dropdown menus.

4) Hurrah! I am now able to copypaste from the save window!

Bad things I saw:

1) You must have made an update yesterday, but you say nothing about it on the webpage. Is the downloadable file altered? I think we need version control (f.e Object bulider v.0.34) and frequent updates. What about the .jar file you were talking about?

2) Something must be wrong with the ClashEditor.html file that comes with the downloadable version. It opens the starting window twice and that window contains no scenario buttons, only one big quit button.

3)You have somewhat widened the text areas in the main window, but not in the edit windows, which are exactly the same.

4) When you select something from the EDIT menu, then it should let you edit an object. The popup windows let you build a new object instead, but you neither can edit it, neither delete it.

5) I once tried to build a civ but the program crashed right after I gave the ruler's name. The second time, after accepting the civ's name, it didn't proceed; the batch file instead was added a few lines indicating some errors. The third time it showed a big window with nothing in it except the name of the civ (I think I've got it this time!). All the times I tried this online, it crashed rightaway.

6) The object editor window doesn't refresh itself, so one can become a surrealist painter if only one has multiple windows open or drags the beast around the corners of his desktop. And what's worse, the online version is terribly slow to respond.

Things I expect to see shortly:

1) The capability to fully edit and delete the objects.

2) The capability to set our own values for the attributes and to define the proper functions between them.

3) Further clarification on what the "culture class" is supposed to do.

4) Further expansion on the social classes, along the lines of the govt model.

5) The implementation of the negotiations mechanism and of ideologies.

Suggestions:

1) Do not rush with the turn logic; there is much more stuff to insert before it makes sense to run turns.

2) Do not bother too much with graphics; on the other hand, a sound interface is neccesary.

Too bad Rodrigo is unavailable right now. He would surely discover plenty of faults in the design that I cannot.

------------------
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell

**F_Smith** · August 4, 2000, 00:22

Hi, Axi:

Man, your vacation sounds like a dream!!! I'm jealous!

1) I am continually updating the one on the web, for testing purposes. The downloadable file is actually the version control of the moment. That downloadable file will be the last 'release'. The one on the web will have new features that are not fully implemented. A version number is a good idea, I'll put one in.

2) I'll check that out when I get a chance, but the downloadable 'applet' version is kind of unnecessary with a downloadable application version working.

3) As I flesh out the object details, I am fixing that. In the online version, check out editing 'Culture' and 'Civ'.

4) Same as 3. Both Culture and Civ now have details to be edited.

5) This should be working now, online.

6) Yes, that needs work -- the refreshes don't all work the way they're suppose to. I'll fix that a.s.a.p.

* * *

1) As I flesh them out, that is going in. As I said, 'culture' and 'civ' are there now (along with 'ruler', a part of 'civ').

2) Attributes -- in, mostly. Defining functions is next.

3) Check the online version.

4) Social Classes have to be integrated, agreed. One of the next steps.

5) Ideologies is specifically what I will code in tonight/tomorrow night.

* * *

1) Agreed. Altho it's fun to watch the calendar click, and the stats change, so I put in the framework for the turn code, and one simple function -- right now, the 'turn' button will change the govt's tax rate to the ruler's preferred tax rate.

2) I hope you realize that the graphix that are there are merely simple memory images I am drawing with bitmaps and masks. Simple stick figures and line drawings. I have no illusions about my pitiful artistic ability!

3) I do wish Rodrigo could help with this right now.

Good questions, all.

Thanks, Axi. Keep on keeping on. Hope you enjoy your vacation!!! See ya when you get back.

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