The Clash Web Page

[Dominique]

Alright...

Well done, Kull's page - as far as one can get using Frontpage (no, I'm not an MS fan, really).

No, I don't use FP, being a strong believer in typing the code myself (I use Homesite 4.0 with some help of Dreamweaver if tables are getting complicated). But most of my sites use lots of perl scripts and sometimes javascript / DHTML (for those shiny effects).

I think the Apolyton site itself gives a nice model to form the CLASH site after.

And as for you being the designer of the www.hi..r.org site - after my above rant I don't think a further comment is necessary, is it?

Please tell me that you are in no way associated with that "project" proper, and you are the designer only (although I personally would refuse to do such a dirty job).

Did you READ what they write? Do you KNOW what kind of idiocy is on several of those pages?

I find it amazing how some people on the web deal with the issue of nazism, really...


[This message has been edited by Dominique (edited June 07, 1999).]

[Dominic]

Dominique,

Kull told my what to put on the pages. He was the dictator. I did not type any of the text on the pages. Ask Kull when he gets back.

[manurein]

Dominique, a simple word to tell you I TOTALLY SUPPORT YOU on the neo-nazis web sites point...
I had thought of a picture for one of the leaders, although I've not tried to find a photograph (I'm sure we can find some). In fact, there are two leaders I was thinking about, two African leaders of modern tiles :
- Haïle Celassie, also called the Negus, the last emperor of the Ethiopian Empire, which was the oldest empire on earth whan it was conquered by Mussolini in 1933 (His first assistant made an unforgettable speech at the SDN for the occasion, maybe u've heard of it).
- Leopold Sedar Sengor, former president of the Senegal. This guy had been the the main african politician who led the disussions with Charles De Gaulle for the decolonization of the black african french colonies, he's also probably the first democracy-aware african politician.
If u are intersted in having a picture of one of those guys, I'll find it.
- Another idea : the Egyptian leader whose name I forgot (was it Mubarak) who pushed the french and english out of Egyptia, gained the independance of Egyptia and more over the Suez Canal.

[Dominique]

manurein,

maybe it's just my personal preference of using ancient motifs rather than modern one... on the other hand, I often am a bit reluctant of using portraits of more contemporary persons in a game. To overdo it a bit: While it is absolutely acceptable to put George Wahington on a game cover, a portrait of George Bush might offend several people (maybe including Mr. Bush).

But, anyway, yes, sure, I'd like to see those pictures. A word of warning, though: To be usable, they should have a size of about 500 x 1000 pixels. Sure I can do little web site gfx out of smaller source images, but forget about real cover printings etc. then. The gfx used by know were pretty big (I scanned them from some archeological books), and the "original" logo is 1024 x 1024.

[Dominic]

Can we do something like this for the logo to? It has a little to do with Civ2 though

http://aa.apolyton.net/civ2logo1.jpg

[Dominique]

Dominic,

what exactly do you mean "something like this"?

- the solarizing effect?

- the faded shadows?

- the texture on the letters?

All of these gimmicks could be done (easily and in minutes), but I didn't do it yet for 2 reasons:

a) It's very easy to go overboard with these - while effects look good on pure letters (like in your example) they can easily destroy the overall appeal of a whole (graphical) logo

b) We have a preliminary logo only, and it's no use to do the detail work before the overall layout is fixed.


[This message has been edited by Dominique (edited June 08, 1999).]

[Dominic]

ok

Just a idea

[Kull]

We seem to have a major misunderstanding going on here:

1) I'm not a Nazi (neo or otherwise)

2) Dominic did not design that nazi site and neither one of us has anything to do with it.

3) I personally find Hitler repellant, but if we decide to omit all the "leaders" who comitted "crimes against humanity", there's a very long list who won't appear in Clash of Civilizations.

4) I'm sure we can find quite a number of "politically correct" individuals to put on the cover, but if they aren't WIDELY RECOGNIZABLE, then we risk losing those buyers who's first contact with Clash will be the Logo/Box Cover.

5) Like it or not, many civ-type players are WWII buffs, and you-know-who is an instantly recognizable symbol of that war, and that's the ONLY reason I suggested using him as a symbol for modern era warfare.

Let's see if we can concentrate on designing a really interesting game that reflects the world as it was and is and leave the value judgements to the philosophers.

[Mark_Everson]

Kull:

Let me apologize to you and Dominic. We straightened the issues out by email, and I should have made sure that those results were clearly represented in the forum.

On the later issues in your post, I simply think it sends the wrong message to have a recent figure known for their atrocities as one of the Only two figures in the Clash logo. The game represents so much more that this, and it would give the wrong impression if nothing else. On the general historical topic of genocidal maniacs, I agree that the further you go back, the harder it is to find a great leader that wasn't one...

So I think we should at least avoid any modern (say post-1900) leader who committed genocide. (Probably we should avoid any post-1900 leader altogether.) And yes that knocks out several one might consider. But I think it in poor taste if nothing else to put them there. If there are people still alive who lost loved ones directly due to the institutional murder instigated by a leader then I think that leader should not be considered for inclusion in the logo.

Call it PC or what you will, I just think such a leader on the logo wouldn't be best for the game.

[Rebel]

Just a suggestion, how about Abraham Lincoln.
Was a liberator, war leader, and while not universally respected at the time has become one of the dominant leaders in US history.

The sketch that the penny is based on can be found at
http://members.aol.com/RVSNorton/Lincoln14.html

This would give us a recent historical figure that at least the US buyers would recognize and not be all that controversial.

Rebel

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited June 10, 1999).]

[Dominique]

Kull:
No offense meant - was a bare misunderstanding.

It's certainly true that often "great" leaders were quite militaristic (to say the least). Even Frederic II. of Prussia, widely known as a philosopher and tolerant ruler, initiated a series of wars which in the end did cost the lives of many thousand people (sigh...).

The question is: Do the portraits on the logo really have to be recognizable personalities? Isn't it much more important for the logo to express the style / atmosphere of the game? That's why I used the statues - hadn't I found two actually well-known individuals, I would have been satisfied with any two good-looking statues.

Anyway, since I like the two portraits used now and no one hinted yet where to find some good (and large!) reproductions of more appropriate leaders, I'll leave it this way until someone hands me ofer better material...

Btw., please feel free to comment on

http://www.qed.de/work/clash/ ,

the layout prototype for the new CLASH site.


[This message has been edited by Dominique (edited June 16, 1999).]

[Blade Runner]

I like the Clash site. IMHO there is a problem. The text on the first page are so small, that is almost unreadable. Maybe a short explanation about the project will be better.

Blade Runner

[Harun ar Rashid]

Sorry!

[This message has been edited by Harun ar Rashid (edited June 16, 1999).]

[Harun ar Rashid]

I completely agree with Blade Runner. The detailed description can appear somewhere else.

[Mark_Everson]

Dominique:

Looks Great! I can't wait to see the whole thing

-Mark