Beyond Alpha Centauri:: Discussion Thread 2

[History Guy]

Hello all. I'm going to finish and post my latest bit later today.

Just a quick note to Sovereign, Morgan Interstellar and the University have been pact-brothers since about 2549 according to my timeline, so no first contact things with the Morganites are possible.

Here's a bit on diplomatic relations with the University.

The University: An alliance exists between the University and Morgan Interstellar. There is lucrative trade between these two states, not only in the FTL industry, but also in computers and other technological products. The University is one of the company's most secluded and quiet allies, and will not usually engage in a military conflict unless attacked.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Sovereign
Kassopiea, what about Terran - Univ relations? Perhaps a treaty of trade or friendship

Hmmm, at least the relations are not hostile... Maybe some trade, maybe better mechanical parts (like hi-tech screwdrivers or something alike), in exchange for minerals known only in Sol. And an informal stance of friendship is acceptable, just don't do the error the Believer's did

[Sprayber]

Sovereign: You may want to review the current state of Inerstellar politics. The Univeristy may not be able to be friends with everyone.

Morgan and the Terrans are at war
Sparta and the Hive have extremely cold relations so far
Spartans will go to war with the Terrans if or when they attack Morgan in his territory
Drones mostly support Morgan and the Spartans but can afford to stay outside of conflict at the moment.
The Pks are perhaps for the first time in history minding their own business
The Believers may end up trying to play both sides.
The Protectorate will be attacked by everyone most likely.

[Sovereign]

Ack! I didn't realize you had your timeline, HistoryGuy! I'll go back to my timeline, modify it so that the Morganites stumbled across University's Zak system in 2549 as per your timeline, and developed trade and alliances thereafter. How's that?

Mellian, I thought the galaxy itself is 100,000 light years across, right? so if you measure the distance from Alpha Centauri or Sol to the galatic core (the white blob in the north part of Sprayber's map) it's roughly the same distance to University's 3 systems. In addition, University's 3 systems are near the edge of the galaxy, making it logically, 50,000 light years from galatic core (100,000 light year diameter divided by two means radius). If you say the human sphere is 200 light years then the galaxy would only be 1,000 to 5,000 light years across, not the real 100,000 light year diameter.

I was thinking about transwarp as the future version of FTL. Suffice it to say that the Fraal probably has it, and with constant refinements to the FTL drives, eventually Transwarp would be discovered. I'd give it maybe 100 - 200 years from the story timeline. I'm not saying University has Transwarp, but I think its likely they would have Transwarp in a few centuries. I was just hinting at the possibility, nothing more. Humans in the story do encounter advanced technologies that they may understand the effects, but unable to activate, use, or develop them for centuries. Take the Scions for example. Or humans understanding Fraal's technology superiority, but unable to duplicate or develop Fraal technology until maybe M.Y. 1,000,000 or something like that.

Kass, good idea. How about trade relations at first, then maybe improve relationships to "good friends"? Think of what the University could offer to Earth... Univ's advanced building technologies and terraforming for Mars, Venus, and Pluto, etc.

Hrmm, I can't think of anything else right now. Hopefully these explanations will be sufficient enough so I can start my story!!!!

[Sovereign]

True Sprayber. I have a Vendetta on the Believers, and I'd like to introduce an interesting element to the story by Univ being stuck between two sides, Hive Alliance (Hive, Bree, Terrans), and the Morgan Alliance (Morgans, Spartans, and Drones). Align with old friends and deepen old hatred from old foes, or reject old friends and gain trust of former foes...

Univ would be stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to decide which side to join. The Democratic societies of Morgan, Drones, and Sparta... or the police states of Hive, Terrans, and Bree. University feels a strong pull towards Earth, their homeland, and their old alliance with the Hive during Univ's struggles on Chiron. But the University is a democracy, and is supposed to join the democratic states yet doesn't know what Alliance Group to join. This would make for an interesting political situation, and the Univ has technology that both sides would be interested in, etc. Just letting you guys know where I'm coming from.

What do you think of these dynamics?

[Sovereign]

Oh, I forgot to reply to FC's question... I think University of Planet should change its name to the United States of University to reflect its democratic government, and American values of freedom, research, and superior technology.

I've been thinking... maybe I should use the old University symbol, but make it a set of 3, like the BioHazard warning pic, and superimpose it on the USA flag, replacing the stars with the Univ symbol in the blue part of the flag (the three sets of semicircles represent the 3 Univ systems).... I have another idea but I'll need a day or two to design it in photoshop. Then you guys can vote on which one looks best. How does that sound?

[Frankychan]

Mmmm,

Okay Sprayber-I took my French mid-term today so expect the Hive's response by tomorrow. Nothing fancy, just deepening the plot between us.

Kass: Are you going to have enough time to prepare a post for the Hive communications ship,or do you want me to just post it?

Sovereign: I like the sound of the Universities plot line so far...kinda like being caught between a rock and a hard place...or in this case, joining the Illustrious HIVE (yaay! or the despotic Spartans (booo!)<---just kidding Sprayber!

And thanks for making the University logo-my comp would probably crash if I tried doing your seal! How about United Planets of the University?

Really like your thoughts though!! Can't wait to see your post!

Ooooh before I forget,

In my GHE Xenology page, I'm going to have pics of each of the races. I'm sorry if you already have preconceptions of what a Bulwark, Xiero, Fran, and Tarlak look like-but I envision them to look like a certain way. I know I said I want people to use their imagination when reading my posts but I wanna have pics for these races so there is a commonality for all readers and authors!

Sorry.

[Mr. President]

Sovereign: Ooh, political agonizing! Makes a nice change from "shoot till you drop".

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by frankychan
Kass: Are you going to have enough time to prepare a post for the Hive communications ship,or do you want me to just post it?

I might have time today. We'll see.

[Mellian]

Grrrrrrrrrr, just when i tried making quick replies about somethings before it is to late, Apolyton is down

Sovereign

I read your refine timeline, but there is still some conflict with the main timeline. I know it is a pain, but University is involved in some important events like the FTL. And just because Univ discovered FTL means you can make the theory or details of how it works or even add to it.

I suggest you drop the Side-Warp thing... it is creative, but it won't exactly work in BAC. Better to have humanity close together within a 50-100ly radius of Sol and to keep FTL speeds slow... makes space seem a lot larger that way and more fun.

The Official FTL concept we are using is "Quantum Tunneling" you can say, but better to simply call it FTL then give some name. With that theory, no one can detect incoming ships....well, no Human faction anyway and some of the aliens... only the Fraal and so on can detect incoming ships... Will go more into details in the Datalinks thread. To get faster speeds in FTL, it depends on the power source, how you enter FTL speed, and so on. FTL Drives can be refined to the point of being really advance.... but BAC sake, no super speed FTLs. Will allow Univ have FTL speeds equal to the Protectorate.... 15ly/day in average. So no alternate dimension like hyperspace or your side-space please....

Other timeline conflicts are...

University cannot invent FTL after they leave Chiron...else the other factions wouldn't get the FTL technology like the Main timeline suggests. Better that University leaves chiron after the invention of FTL... where Data Angels can acquire the basic specs of the FTL drive and then release throughout Chiron's Datalink Networks....then factions finding out and forcing University to give the full technology. If University moves their headquarters into orbit, then it would make easy for the other factions to force University Surface-to-Space Missiles would exist then as well as various armed Orbital Space Crafts.

Drop the Great Human War thing.... can say Univ provided techs to Hive for their survival, but don't write the entire past history...especially when concerning the other factions. Keep it vague.

The factions that left Chiron generally do in the 2400s... so if Univ sent a ship to visit Chiron in the 2500s....then more then the Hive would have left.... Generally leaving the Peacekeepers to pretty much rule the world, with the Pirates controlling the Seas....and remaining few holdings of Data Angels (majority of faction conquere by aliens and human factions didn't exactly gave their bases back after liberating them of aliens), Cult of Planet, Gaians and some Morganites maybe.

So be carefully not towrite history stuff for the other factions and be aware of the Main events as well.

Before you came, the basic description for University is:

they didn't control many systems, does have contact with neighbouring factions in space, but not very active diplomaticly. They keep to themselves and discourage others from entering their territory, even for tourism. Simple trade dealing with Morganites, Peacekeepers, and Drones... maybe others.
Generally quiet. So your idea of University would fit easily from the basic desc i gave....but better to keep Univ in the core of human space thought. Can have Univ to start being active into diplomacy after keeping to themselves for so long. Also be aware that the Hive is secretive and prefer not attracting attention to themselves.....so making the Hive attack on Univ space a bit odd and screaming for attention, which i think Hive doesn't want.... especially in the past century.

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Sovereign: You may want to review the current state of Inerstellar politics. The Univeristy may not be able to be friends with everyone.

Morgan and the Terrans are at war
Sparta and the Hive have extremely cold relations so far
Spartans will go to war with the Terrans if or when they attack Morgan in his territory
Drones mostly support Morgan and the Spartans but can afford to stay outside of conflict at the moment.
The Pks are perhaps for the first time in history minding their own business
The Believers may end up trying to play both sides.
The Protectorate will be attacked by everyone most likely.

About the Peacekeepers....... rather have them as one of big human factions in Human space, but in the past bit, they are oddly keeping to themselves. They also have a strong Military, just mainly use as defence, escort and hunting down annoying Pirate clans like the Larionov, Blood Eagles, and so on. So don't make any plans into trying to invade the Peacekeepers now Hopefully Guardian can come and take them over...and hopefully when the Great Human Stellar War (has someone a better name?) really starts up. They are Democratic, but not as Bureaucratic as before....now that they control stellar nation where crummy Bureaucracy will simply cause more problems then it is worth. Can say the (Peacekeeper) Commonwealth (they need better name, but other factions still call them Peacekeepers) is the best Stellar Nation to live in. Peaceful paradise, of course not perfect, but still They are into Diplomacy and have Embassies all over the place, but they are quiet and, for first time in history, don't interfere. Maybe the next election (when Guardian or someone else takes the Peacekeepers), will get a pro-active in your face Leader

-LMP

[Mellian]

Mellian, I thought the galaxy itself is 100,000 light years across, right? so if you measure the distance from Alpha Centauri or Sol to the galatic core (the white blob in the north part of Sprayber's map) it's roughly the same distance to University's 3 systems. In addition, University's 3 systems are near the edge of the galaxy, making it logically, 50,000 light years from galatic core (100,000 light year diameter divided by two means radius). If you say the human sphere is 200 light years then the galaxy would only be 1,000 to 5,000 light years across, not the real 100,000 light year diameter.

Sovereign, suggesttion.. pay attention to all of the posts in this thread.... atleast all the ones specific to you and all posts i ever write If you go back a page, you will see my point that the official map is mest up.. especially having the Galactic core there which doesn't make sense at all, like you pointed out. SO, simply ignore the Galactic core thing Please. Sprayber said he will eventually fix up the map. A lot of those stars around Sol is about the real positions of the stars from Sol in real life...if you look top down of course. If we have a human sphere of 2000ly, would you not think that we would of made FTL speeds a lot faster, and factions controlling more territory?

I was thinking about transwarp as the future version of FTL. Suffice it to say that the Fraal probably has it, and with constant refinements to the FTL drives, eventually Transwarp would be discovered. I'd give it maybe 100 - 200 years from the story timeline. I'm not saying University has Transwarp, but I think its likely they would have Transwarp in a few centuries. I was just hinting at the possibility, nothing more. Humans in the story do encounter advanced technologies that they may understand the effects, but unable to activate, use, or develop them for centuries. Take the Scions for example. Or humans understanding Fraal's technology superiority, but unable to duplicate or develop Fraal technology until maybe M.Y. 1,000,000 or something like that.

Yes, but we don't want to make BAC like Startrek, where there is so many forms of FTL travel. BAC official form of FTL travel is "Quantum Tunneling" and all FTL techs resolve around that. And transwarp will simply unbalance BAC. so no Transwarp. Fraal of course may have a better FTL, but it still resolves around the Quantum Tunneling idea. ANyway, just drop the side-space thing and sling shotting University Colonials 2000ly away...... basic FTL at the time period is good enough for close distant colonization. Scions know how to replicate Biometal, but still haven't figure out how Biometal was created in the first place. Biometal regenerates more of itself, which was notice before...but a slow process. They just learn how to speed up the process in refinaries, using up energy, providing them unlimited Biometal without needing to go off Mining. Scions still advance.

Kass, good idea. How about trade relations at first, then maybe improve relationships to "good friends"? Think of what the University could offer to Earth... Univ's advanced building technologies and terraforming for Mars, Venus, and Pluto, etc.

Realize that there as been a distrust between the CHiron factions and the Terrans... and Sol as it own various factions within the Terran Alliance. Can have trade between Univ and some Terran factions, but better off to stay away from advance techs. If University does provide the Terrans advance techs, then the other Factions will not like Univ to much.... So if university wants to stay neutral, better limit the trading with the Terrans.

Also note, one of University's FTL prototypes visited Sol, but didn't make contact or notice the human activity in the system, and warp out. Gaians visited Sol later on and became the first faction to make Official Contact with Terrans.... but Gaians left with an bad impression as Earth Coalition Ambassador who spoke to them said something on the line that Chiron is a colony belonging to Earth or something like that........ That created the bad feelings between the Chironians and Terrans.

-LMP

[History Guy]

OK, here we are. Apolyton seems to have been down last night.

Sovereign, instead of a US Flag with superimposed University symbol, how's about a Russian flag with University symbol. I highly doubt that the Zakharov dynasty, being of Russian descent, would put the US flag up over the Russian one.

Silence, as soon as I get my post put up later today start work on the post on the attack on Capella. I plan a rather good sized piece on Capella. First we'll have the fleet assaulting with a post about the Soldiers of God fleet attacking and bombarding, and then my post about Admiral Vallachi's simualtenous assault. And then after we shall have the conquest of the capital of Capella's largest planet, with Soldier of God attacks and Morganite attacks. How's that sound, Silence and Kassiopeia?

Kassiopeia, how many men are garrisoning Capella's largest planet? Who is the colonial magistrate, general-in-chief, etc.? How many ships shall we have to destroy?

[Mellian]

Univ would be stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to decide which side to join. The Democratic societies of Morgan, Drones, and Sparta... or the police states of Hive, Terrans, and Bree. University feels a strong pull towards Earth, their homeland, and their old alliance with the Hive during Univ's struggles on Chiron. But the University is a democracy, and is supposed to join the democratic states yet doesn't know what Alliance Group to join. This would make for an interesting political situation, and the Univ has technology that both sides would be interested in, etc. Just letting you guys know where I'm coming from.

What do you think of these dynamics?

Sovereign....

Terran Alliance is an alliance of various Human factions in Sol like the Earth Coalition (biggest member), Mars Combine (second biggest), Venus, InEn, Belters, Scions and now Titan. They all have seperate agendas and so on (Mars and Venus is quiet. Belters lack a real government to make much difference. Scions keep to themselves, but sort of forced to work with the TAF and so on). Another faction of TA is the Terran Alliance Fleet, which is considere a seperate entity within TA, but not a member. The TAF is Terran Alliance's official military force. Once the Terran Council officially declares war, TAF will have a lot of control over the member's militaries and security, and be able to properlly defend Sol the way they wanted to, which annoying members like the Coalition and InEn politicly prevented. So be careful when concerning the Terrans.... Terran Alliance is generally Democratic, where each Member nation/faction have equal amount of votes in the Terran Council. will get into details later...unless Kass already did concerning the Terran Council somewhere. Each member as different kinds of Governments or lack of...and how their societies is runned. Note, Mars nearly completed terraforming, looks more like Earth then the Mars today in real life.

ANyway, Terran Alliance isn't allied with the Hives and so on, just some Terran factions like Titan and Earth Coalition making secret deals

the Spartans isn't a democracy I don't think the Morganites is either, as they are simply a Big Stellar Corporate Nation.... InEn the same way, but way smaller in comparison to the Morganites. terrans.

So better don't get the idea that it is a Democracy vs Dictorship/Police State struggle

-LMP

[Silence]

TAF taskforce is about what 200 ships total right?