Beyond Alpha Centauri:: Discussion Thread 2

[Frankychan]

So the University finally shows up!

I think that the post was done rather well. Since the University is supposed to be the most technologically superior faction in BAC, it might be that the Magellan could have very sophisticated communication systems installed. Maybe that's how they picked up on Protectorate 'background' transmissions.

Lonestar: Hold off destroying the ship until Hive ships arrive! Since they are 9 ly's away from LP 658-2, I think the Hive station will be able to intercept the University's distress call. Not going to have a Protectorate-Hive war start just yet though...gotta build up the drama.

[Lonestar]

I promise all of you, I shall not destroy the Magellen.


Capture it? Yes. Strip it down? Yes. Send the crew to a "Burnell Village" where we can practice fighting them? Almost certainly.


If you want, one of the last statements in my post can be "Sir, Hive vessels incoming...", right before we activate our stardrive and enter Null-Space. Hauling the battered Magellen, of course.

[Mellian]

Okay, since we are having discussion about Tachyon Communications, which i say is BAC's FTL Communication because tachyon comm as being use by many sci-fis and there is useful theories by Einstein and so on about tachyons. So i went exploring for information on tachyon communication on google.... so here is some snippets of information i got on tachyon communications.............

tachyon comm info snippets


Radio communication has been replaced by tachyon communication. This is instantaneous across any interstellar distance.

StellarCom - Communications system used for sending long range messages through tachyon signals from solar system to solar system.

Tachyon - Theoretical particle capable of traveling faster than light. Tachyons are the mainstay of faster than light sensors and communication systems.

Tachyon Communication - Means of real-time communication signals over the span of many light years. No lag time was ever seen by any race, using Tachyon Communications.


Tachyon communication is a recent discovery. Tachyons travel at extremely fast speeds, and reach their destination almost instantly, but the signal degrades very rapidly, making it almost impossible to get a signal farther than a fraction of a parsec. To transmit messages long distances, the Interstellar Communications Network (ICNet, "Icenet") was constructed connecting the more highly populated worlds. This is a series of tachyon transmitters which relay signals picked up from one transmitter onto the next. In this way, planets which are a part of the net get virtually instantaneous communication with all other planets. Transceivers on the fringes of the net are equipped with hyperwave transceivers to allow communication between the net and those outside it. Also, a starship which is close enough to a transmitter (which is anywhere, if it is inside the space the network covers), can send and receive signals normally.


Tachyons are particles which travels faster than light. According to Einstein's equations of special relativity, a particle with an rest mass and a velocity greater than c (speed of light or 300,000 Km/s) would have a real momentum and energy. Ironically, the greater the kinetic energy of a tachyon, the slower it travels, approaching c asymptotically (from above) as its energy approaches infinity. Alternatively, a tachyon losing kinetic energy travels faster and faster, until as the kinetic energy approaches zero, the speed of the tachyon approaches infinity; such a tachyon with zero energy and infinite speed is called transcendent. Tachyons travels around 100 c with the current technology.
Tachyon particles were first detected in the early 21st century. Within 30 years Tachyons were being used to send information at speeds at about 100 c.


opinions and ideas:

As far as i am concern, you cannot detect background tachyon echoes, so hoot no way Magellan can detect focus tachyon signal without being in the right place to intercept. Tachyon signals do go in FTL speeds and can easily bypass a ship...and it does degrades the further it gets. Knowing the protectorate, they wouldn't allow people to simply use the tachyon comm in broadbands... and makes lot more sense for Planetary bound communications to be direct links by data networks and bouncing focus comm signals off Satellites.... to focus to detect and besides, if it is focus only to reach the Satellite, won't go further then that. For Sovereign's post, Magellan will be very lucky to intercept a protectorate tachyon comm signal, yet encrypted. , with their tachyon sensors. Lets say the comm signal was ment for a protectorate agent, which University will not know as it is way to encrypted and low powered to find out.... so Magellan detects it at a nearby system where it was surveying and exploring... then, by figuring out what direction the signal was going too, the Magellan it is towards a nearby star and FTL jumps to it..... when getting there, starts getting hunted down by protectorate ships.......... then Magellan does a broadband tachyon comm distress call, so any ships with tachyon sensors within certain amount of lightyears gets it.... in some cases, can so a Cone effect with tachyon signals, to focus more in one paticular area.

the different applications using Tachyons in BAC would be:

Tachyon Communication - tachyon comm signals degrades the further it goes, so there is a limiting range and disallow for a constant inter-system Datalinks/Grid Network. So it is required to have Tachyon Comm Arrays and Satellites all over the place, establishing a tachyon comm network... Each faction would have their own comm networks i would think.... but the Cyborgs maintain a Public one, where all factions can use. Cyborgs also have a nack with tachyon communications, and since they are litterally everywhere with their Comm Arrays/Stations and Comm Centers, they can easily intercept signals all over the place and literally passively spy on other Factions. Focus tachyon signals are harder to intercept then broader signals. tachyons comms is mainly use for communicating in large distances, not on planets.

Tachyon Sensors/Detectors - most commonly use to detect cloak ships and intercepting tachyon signals. can also be use for other scanning stuff. tachyon detectors are solely ment for detecting Cloak ships and intercepting signals where sensors are less focus on detecting and use to mainly for scanning.

Tachyon Buoys - Buoys are commonly use by ships to lock on and FTL to it, making safer to literally FTL to a system "blind", especially when you don't much sensor data on a system. Buoys are also use to for transmitting broadband short range messages...usually to warn off or make the listener aware of a danger and so on.

Tachyon Bolt - base on Einsteins theory, more power you put into a tachyon, the slower it gets.... even if it gets slower, can use tachyons as a weapon. Tachyon Beams is possible, but requires more power to keep it the beam constant, even temporally, so making it slower and useless, and less damage then a Bolt of tachyon energy. Only University is knowns to use tachyon bolt weaponry so far in human space.


So now, is everyone clear about tachyon communication and its possible uses base on the info snippets above?

-LMP

[Mellian]

[QUOTE] I saw this coming. I wonder what I should name the Terran science ships... Excerpt from my to-be modified future update on mah BAC-site - feel free to take them, think of this as a gift, albeit the names aren't too imaginitive :
[quote]


yes, University can do that, name their ships of famous scientists, philosophers, theorists and etc from past to present real life reality and to fiction future from 2002 to 2700 also name university ships with scientific/tech names like tachyon, antimatter, photon, atom, algorithm, hyperwave, admantium, neutronium, silver, gold, bronze, quantum, fusion, fission, laser, etc.....


As for ship styles and ship uses..... start with the ship sizes and then figure out how you want University's military to operate....University Military can have the reputation in human space for being unorthodox, oddballs, weird, and overlly silly Then think up various kinds of ships for various roles in University's military. then figure out a ship style, which would be general common among Univ ships while making sure a ship design and specs allows the ship to achieve it's role(s). If you want to borrow ship designs from other sci-fi universes, make sure it fits in your ship design styles you want for university ships and how that borrow design would work out in their given roles. Do realize, many ship designs from other sci-fis are base on ship styles the society likes, how their military is like and how ships are use... in Startrek, ships depend way more on Shields then Armor as shields are quite powerful enough, allowing to make fancy looking ships, which usually have a lot of weak points you can easily blow off. All of the Federation ships are under 1000meters long too. Warp nacelles are base on using Warp as their FTL. Defiant is generally a oversize fighter, with very fast STL drives, Impulse engines... allow it to travel from earth to pluto in 5-20 minutes. In BAC, shields are crap and mainly only use to protect a ship from small meteorites, radiation and so on. So BAC ships depends more on Armor and Point Defence Grids for protection. BAC ships are also design in such ways not to allow 'weak' points and not allow the enemy know where the bridge is and open to be nock out pretty easily. The fastest STL drives would take a couple days to get from Earth to pluto, so no fast ships like the Defiant or the Andromoda (1.7km long i think, with a very fast STL speeds, like 70% of Light Speed.... pretty fast for a large capital ship, that like big arse fighter surprising that an advance ship like that uses missiles and so on as weapons ). BAC ships don't need naccelles for 'Quantum Tunneling' FTL , and ramscoops don't depend on nacelles either.


so, understand where i am going with this? if you have creativity and an imagination for something, you have a good imagination for everything.

-LMP

[Sovereign]

Hmm...

LMP how would a Defiant style of ship with toned down speed sound? Replace the Defiant's engines with BAC's engines and it'll make a good University destroyer, with solid build and good weapon ratios.

As for the Promethus, that would be one of my two secret projects. A multi-purpose dreadnought, has solid build like the Defiant without fancy shapes or saucers, and has the triple assault vectors. I think that multiple assault vector is possible in BAC universe with the current level of technology. It has three computer cores able to communicate with each other, and these computer cores are the prototypes of Pre-Sentient Algorithms, also used in UCS robotic units.

LMP, I edited my military list... basing most designs on the Farscape Levithian class, using metals and alloys instead of the organic stuff. The basic ship shape is similiar, a 3-D elongated oval shape, but UCS put cannons on its hull like modern naval vessels. Something like that.

I agree, no shields in BAC or on my ships. Neutronium can provide almost complete immunity to asteroid collisions, ship ramming, ballistic missiles, and mostly any projectiles. Keep in mind, due to the extreme density of Neutronium hulls, projectiles of lesser density cannot pierce the hulls. But energy weapons can damage the Neutronium hulls, since they can split or damage the atomic structure of it.

As for the communications thing... here's my idea how to fix this.

How about a slip-up or malfunction at your relay that allows UCS to pick up only several tranmissions. Basically chatter that identifies your faction, that you're human, and that your government is pseudo-facist. No more specific information or details about government or whatever.

Humans are fated to make mistakes and slip-ups... so I was thinking, maybe we could factor that into the communication thing in my post. Here's my idea for a revisement:

"Captain! We just picked up several garbled civilian tranmissions from a relay station in this system. It is apparent that the relay station suffered some malfunction of some kind, or got overloaded."

"Sara, are you certain? find out what the tranmissions mean or its contents?"

"From what the language tanks and literary sub-processors could analyze, it's clear that there is a human faction presence in this system, who call themselves the Procterate. They call their government pseudo-facism. No further information could be gleaned from the tranmissions. The relay station has re-cloaked and we cannot establish their new location for a bit."

(Then enter Procterate ship trying to destroy Magellan and knowledge that it gleaned)

How does this revision sound? Remember, UCS has very good detection technologies and exploration sensors. Also, for a good example of what I'm coming from would be USA finding out German sub communications during WW2 in the Atlantic, and deciphering them. We could apply this to the situation in my post, using BAC versions of communication and detection instead of radio and telegraphs from WW2.


One other thing... I will dispatch one of my massive 7 kilometer Enterprise Carriers to the spot Magellan is transmitting distress signals. It warps into realspace right in between Magellan and the Procterate ship. They trade shots, but the Procterate ship cannot hope to destroy a huge 7 kilometer carrier by itself. then Hive ships arrive, Procterate ship has to retreat, and Hive - UCS relationships is established.

I'm saying this because if the Procterate captures my ship, then there would be no way of Hive - UCS contact from occurring that I was planning with FC. Either Magellan puts up a heroic battle, and gets further damaged, just in time for Hive to come to its aid... or use the Enterprise Carrier idea.

I'm honestly not trying to put you down or anything Lonestar, but I planned on this with FC for a week or two.

[Frankychan]

Lonestar: Sovereign and I were going to use this incident to open diplomatic channels between our two governments! Can you leave some survivors or something for us to reply to?

As for your "Burnell Village"...

I was thinking about it and you guys might have a hard time assessing GHE command. Hive warriors would work together to either escape, kill captors, or whatever. Main point would be that they would work together no matter what the outcome.

Hope you can use this in your next post.

Damn Sovereign beat me to the post.

But yeah, we kinda were collaborating on this incident for a while and are going to use this to open Hive/University channels.

Sovereign---> <---Me===Us==>

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sovereign
Hmm...

LMP how would a Defiant style of ship with toned down speed sound? Replace the Defiant's engines with BAC's engines and it'll make a good University destroyer, with solid build and good weapon ratios.

Now, using the ship sizes below versus the size giving in startrek tech sites and books, the Defiant is techinicly a Frigate in BAC standards. Then, there is the case of weaponry....how would they look on the defiant, as no humans have "Phasers", only the Fraal does. Quantum Torpedoe launchers could be normal BAC Torp/Anti-Ship Msl launchers (won't allow quantum torps). the four forward Pulse Phaser Cannons could be Tachyon Bolt Cannons and won't be as rapid of fire as the pulse phasers.... Warp Engines could be where the Ramscoops are and storage containers. Can have a single Matter/Antimatter Reactor in the middle...so Lonestar won't be the only HUmans to have that As for other weapons, it would look rediculus on the defiant and only having 4 forward arc Tachyon Bolt Cannons and 4 Torp launchers (2 front, 2 back) could make the Defiant undergunned compare to a lot of Frigates out there..... unless Tachyon Bolts are heavy ones and it has 2-3 capital grade STL engines....which would make a little ship one of the fastest out there, plus with maneuvering thrusters? wohohoho but the Neutronium armor would not be to thick on the ship thought, but it use Agility and Speed to make it up.



Fighter = 10-50 meters
Scout = 50-100 meters
Corvette = 100-200 meters
Frigate = 200-300 meters
Destroyer = 300-400 meters
Light Cruiser = 400-500 meters
Cruiser = 500-700 meters
Heavy Cruiser = 700-1000 meters
Battlecruiser = 1000-2000 meters
Battleship = 2000-3000 meters
Dreadnought = 3000-4000 meters
Superdreadnought = 4000-5000 meters

Escort Carrier = 500-1000 meters
Carrier = 1000-2000 meters
Heavy Carrier = 2000-3000 meters
Super Carrier = 3000-5000 meters

As for the Promethus, that would be one of my two secret projects. A multi-purpose dreadnought, has solid build like the Defiant without fancy shapes or saucers, and has the triple assault vectors. I think that multiple assault vector is possible in BAC universe with the current level of technology. It has three computer cores able to communicate with each other, and these computer cores are the prototypes of Pre-Sentient Algorithms, also used in UCS robotic units.

3-4km Multi-Vector ships? and being secret? i don't think other Factions or other ships out there have much to worry about Multi-Vector ships, or ship seperations in general. What made the Multi-Vector ship good in Startrek is because of Shields and Phasers..... in BAC, won't have those advantages and wouldn't make a big deal....just a Dreadnought seperating into smaller ships which not make a big of deal in Fleet vs Fleet combat... maybe against a one to a few ships, but not against a Fleet of ships. Multi-Vector idea was geared for Startrek, not for BAC...and as nothing to do with technology.. Of course, University can do their crazy projects and having a strange military, which could be one of the factors as to why no other factions is interested in taking on University...... but whenever the "Unification War" (big human war with various sides), University will learn to smart up and focus on one form of Military ships another thing, Sentient AIs are alowed, just not common and people prefer not to, especially after watching some of the Morganites silly holomovies about Sentient Androids eliminating the humans, its creators

LMP, I edited my military list... basing most designs on the Farscape Levithian class, using metals and alloys instead of the organic stuff. The basic ship shape is similiar, a 3-D elongated oval shape, but UCS put cannons on its hull like modern naval vessels. Something like that.

Can you provide a pic of that Leviathan class ship? I was never able to get into Farscape.

I agree, no shields in BAC or on my ships. Neutronium can provide almost complete immunity to asteroid collisions, ship ramming, ballistic missiles, and mostly any projectiles. Keep in mind, due to the extreme density of Neutronium hulls, projectiles of lesser density cannot pierce the hulls. But energy weapons can damage the Neutronium hulls, since they can split or damage the atomic structure of it.

Depends on the Projectile weapon.... Gauss/Impact weaponry may not be effective against Neutronium Armor, but about Gracers (name and idea from Honor Harrington books) which fires a needle metal dart at Light Speeds just then maybe it can pierce Neutronium hulls........ as for Anti-Ship MSLs/Torpedoes, they would be able to damage Neutronium hulls, just not pierce them and not as effective against other hulls..... as they do have Fusion to Antimatter warheads.

As for the communications thing... here's my idea how to fix this.

How does this revision sound? Remember, UCS has very good detection technologies and exploration sensors. Also, for a good example of what I'm coming from would be USA finding out German sub communications during WW2 in the Atlantic, and deciphering them. We could apply this to the situation in my post, using BAC versions of communication and detection instead of radio and telegraphs from WW2.

How about Magellan being so lucky to discover a Protectorate Comm Array at the edge of the system and Hack it and record various tachyon comms signals (no civilian ones, like i said before...and military/gov would be encrypted) so they can decrypt them later. Protectorate notices that one of their Comm Arrays is being played around with and sends a ship to investigate, discovers the Magellan and then tries to destroy the ship. less cornier that way and more sense when you deal with the ultra secretive and FASCIST (read some articles on this form of government) Protectorate.

One other thing... I will dispatch one of my massive 7 kilometer Enterprise Carriers to the spot Magellan is transmitting distress signals. It warps into realspace right in between Magellan and the Procterate ship. They trade shots, but the Procterate ship cannot hope to destroy a huge 7 kilometer carrier by itself. then Hive ships arrive, Procterate ship has to retreat, and Hive - UCS relationships is established.

7km? hmmmm, No. Check ship sizes above and that is BAC average standard to make things simple and not confusing if we have different ship standards faction to faction. If you are keen in have Warship-Carrier........ then have a Super Carrier that carries same amount of fighters as a normal Carrier so the rest of the space is geared to weapons and thicker armor...but doesn't mean that the ship is invincible. and FTL isn't fast enough for Carriers to show out of nowhere between Magellan and Protectorate ship.......... Have we even decided yet where University would be in relative to rest of the factions, like the Protectorate? I know your first suggestion is to be in the Protectorate and Hive region, but it is a crowded area with the Peacekeepers, Believers, Hive and Protectorate...... even if Protectorate is very high on the Z axis. If University is located where Sprayber reserved for University, won't be able to send Carriers and get there in time to prevent the destruction/capture of the Magellan....unless the Carriers are in the neighbourhood in Peacekeeper space or whatever....but will still take an hour or two to get there by FTL. another thing, tachyon distress signal wouldn't reach to University, unless it bounces off Tachyon Comm Arrays towards it.....which requires using the public comm network which the cyborgs setup for everybody.

-LMP

[Silence]

I am pretty sure that Grasers are Gamma X-Ray lasers.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by frankychan
Lonestar: Sovereign and I were going to use this incident to open diplomatic channels between our two governments! Can you leave some survivors or something for us to reply to?

As for your "Burnell Village"...

I was thinking about it and you guys might have a hard time assessing GHE command. Hive warriors would work together to either escape, kill captors, or whatever. Main point would be that they would work together no matter what the outcome.

They better be doing their absolute best to try to escape. We didn't build them this compound on a airless planet for nothing!

(hell, we'll even have a few real wepons scattered in the compound for them to use.)

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Silence
I am pretty sure that Grasers are Gamma X-Ray lasers.

In Honor Harrington? no, it shows in the technical pages in the older books and some of the newer ones. Grasers fires a projectile at light speed. the Shrike LAC fighters is built around a Gracer cannon

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Lonestar


They better be doing their absolute best to try to escape. We didn't build them this compound on a airless planet for nothing!

(hell, we'll even have a few real wepons scattered in the compound for them to use.)

Leave it to university people to think up of crazy unorthodox tactics to get away... like release an Antimatter Bomb in the Protectorate Ship's way...... or do something to mess up sensor readings and targetting systems like double-triple echoes..... or something

-LMP

[Silence]

Well Grasers are for one listed as energy weapons. And for the bit about accelerating actuall matter at the speed of light is simply impossibile, and anybody who reads his starfire series nows what happens when somebody commits an impossiblity.

If you want I could bring it the entire Cult of Weber at spacebattles and end the matter, since I am not 100% sure, but only 90% sure.

[Lonestar]

Hey, Frankychan, I just got a wild idea for the start of a GHE/Protectorate War. (But we'll need whoever the Gaians are in on this)

The Gaian's have a colony on the Moon of the GHE's Throneworld, right? Ever read The Moon is a Harsj Mistress?

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Silence
Well Grasers are for one listed as energy weapons. And for the bit about accelerating actuall matter at the speed of light is simply impossibile, and anybody who reads his starfire series nows what happens when somebody commits an impossiblity.

If you want I could bring it the entire Cult of Weber at spacebattles and end the matter, since I am not 100% sure, but only 90% sure.

simply impossible? they said splitting the atom was simply impossible. they said going on the moon was simply impossible. In my opinion, nothing is impossible.......

if accelerating actual matter at the speed of light is impossible, then i guess FTL travel is impossible, no? Grasers are listed as energy weapons, but the description of Grasers does say it fires 'matter' at the speed of light.... so visually, may look like another beam weapon, but with a high kinetic piercing damage. The Graser cannons in Honor Harrington were pretty big, and requires a lot of power, which a single Fusion generator can supply.

another thing, i never read anything in the starfire series... never heard of it. Cult of Weber?

-LMP

[Mellian]

out of the blue question

I was wondering.........

how would you people describe your factions relationship and thoughts about the Fraal? It seems to be widely ignored in the story, which is okay as the Fraal not much involve in Human affairs....well, without humanity realizing it lol. Fraal does have more fondness of the Scions, Gaians, Cyborgs, University and the Peacekeepers. They would have interest on the Terran Alliance in general and the pirates and so on. that the average Fraal...there may be individual fraals who have their own individual interests of course

there would be Fraal motherships (10-15 kilometers) about Human space, but not commonly seen. A human as an higher chance of seeing a Fraal saucer Scout ships and triangular Explorers ships.

What are peoples thoughts to have a percentage of Fraals wanting to colonize a world.... would be younger Fraals and they would be allowed to go off colonizing, but without advance Fraal technologies and so on..... the Fraals, dubbed as the Builders or whatever by Humanity (later on if this happens), wouldn't mind as their advance techs would ruined the fun of colonizing a world and start anew. Won't be a seperate factions, just a neutral world colonized by Fraals somewhere in Human Space, without seriously caring whoes territory they be violating, and etc.... won't much make difference in the story, but human factions would notice i would think.

anyway, just some of my wonderings.........

-LMP