Brainstorming Story Ideas:::

[Rand Al'Tor]

From what I understood, Sprayber merely elaborated on your history, describing the Protecotrate/Hive's current status in more detail, while still holding on to your story. So more of an 'and' thing rather than an 'or'

I very much like your history, though where stood the Morgans in the earlier part of the conflict? Neutral and selling weapons to everybody?

[Hydro]

Morgan? He's an opportunist who seeks to maximize profits. He'll also fight like a badger when cornered - no holds barred. Mr. Moneybags may look soft, but his eyes are flinty.

I suspect he was considered useful by all sides as a conduit, which is a position he'd relish as a middleman. But eventually he ended up like all middleman - redundent.

Also, his bright, shining cities would be a juicy target...

Hydro

[Rand Al'Tor]

Heh... I can very much imagine. BTW, does The Hive actually have a foothold on the continent of The Believers and the University? Since they seem to have captured some Believers bases?

Oh, and I started with some actual history writing. Earth and the Unity. The rest has any thoughts what factions are going to give a voice?

[WotanAnubis]

I have a loose idea for short story set in this world, but I don't know if it actually really fits (the perspective here would be the Data Angels, who aren't actually mentioned anywhere in the beginning construction of this history). It would also elaborate somewhat on the Hive's Thought Control methods and the weaknesses inherit within them.

Also, if I do write it, should it be posted in the collaborative Protectorate thread? After all, that one seems to focus on the Lord's Believers.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Hey, feel free to! Only reason it centres there is because korn and I are the only ones that posted (I'm feeling creative) And even if the Data Angels were never a big political player, they might still have existed as an underground movement.

One suggestion... Perhaps we should have someone (Hydro or SPrayber) be an arbiter on some matters of continuity? In case two stories clash continuity wise, they can make a call? (which is allowed to be reasoned, or they can flip a coin) How did you guys do it during the Spartan Chronicles?

[korn469]

Hydro,

Hey how are you? It's hard to believe that almost eight years later I still find the SMAC back story fascinating. I'd say it's one of the best game stories ever.

I think that the period of time between the two PB exchanges should be small, without any minor spasms caused by PBs. Though I think that Planet's emerging intelligence coupled with ecodamage should have produced some localized minor spasms which resulted in a few devastated cities. More like major natural disasters than a global catastrophe. I could see the Gaians beginning to understand what's happening, then start to develop ways of harnessing their know of Planet. When I played the Spartans I would often run a combination of Police State/Free Market/Knowledge (+2 Support, +2 Morale, +2 Economy, +2 Research, -1 Efficiency, -1 Industry, -2 Police, -2 Probe, -3 Planet). So if this was the case along with the Gaians going green there could be a big discrepancy between the two. The Spartans could have feared that the Gaians were going to get a significant military advantage from captured mind worms. Finally the Spartans carry out a series of mostly tactical PB strikes against PK/Gaian military targets. Obviously they would destroy some cities, but their objective was to conquer not annihilate the alliance.

As they begin to overwhelm the alliance after this surprise PB strike, the UoP and Hive strike back at the Spartans in a fairly massive PB reprisal. The Spartans launch counter strikes against them. This UoP/Hive (who are enemies and maybe they launched strikes against each other) strike seriously damages Spartan territory, though both of those factions suffer as well. However they are more intact. Although wounded, the Spartans are still mopping up the Alliance, ultimately preparing to get revenge on both the Hive and UoP. At this time then the Gaians try to invoke Planet to defend them from the Spartans. This action coupled with the massive damage from the recent PB attacks results in the Spasm. Mind worms devastate most of humanity, but Planet who wasn't ready to flower into full intelligence yet goes fairly silence after the Spasm. The Splinter factions appear in the chaos. Then finally the Hive begins to recover and enslave all of its weaker neighbors.

[WotanAnubis]

Well, I wrote my little story and posted in the other thread. I hope that's OK.

And... I realise I'm not actually describing a history that could be realistic in the Alpha Centauri setting, but more telling a story.

So I think I'll leave it up to others to determine if it 'counts'.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Hey, of course it's okay! It was a very nifty story! And Skye is... very slashable. I was surprised too.

Not sure about continuity, but it raises a question that, since lots of action is going to happen in The Hive cities, needs an answer.

How does 'Thought COntrol' work? Does it make people zombies, with not a jot of free will at all? Or does it merely keep checks on thoughts and 'stop' any thoughts in the nature of 'You know, I really wish we'd have to work less."? In case A, you could indeed walk around with your 'Kill CHairman Yang' shirt, in the second, everyone is still as sharp as ever, but unless the Thought control is malfunctioning, he's not even able to THINK anything rebelious, or able to NOT betray your presence. I'm for the second option. (Positive thing about that. Once freed, people can STILL be pretty functional. They think 'Man, I wish Yang were dead', and are surprised, but they don't need to go back to absolute basics.)

Question two: Just how functional is it? I propose that, while you still have to be careful, it's slipping up pretty badly. Some measures can immunize you, it occasionally fails to get everyone, sometimes has brownouts, is unable to completely wipe thoughts on massive scale as they'd done before (otherwise our character's efforts are rather hopeless)

Question Three: How does it work. Mind control rays? Stuff in the food? Implants? A combination?

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
Question Three: How does it work. Mind control rays? Stuff in the food? Implants? A combination?

The manual says, and I quote:
"The ultimate in Big Brother methods, thought control effuses subtle neurochemical triggers into the atmosphere to render its population obedient, loyal and resistent to outside ideas. However, significant resources are required to maintain this level of control."

This, to me, suggest that the simple act of breathing infects you with a big dose of Hive mind-rape.

Of course, how it affects the mind, I don't know. The masses might very well become passionate patriots, heads filled with Hive slogans and adoration for the Chairman (of course, such passion is dangerous and difficult to fully control). On the other hand, we have the route I took, which goes for the "puppet-on-strings" theory. Much easier to control and regulate: naturally born Genejacks, you might say.
But you're right. Maybe the oppression of undesirable thoughts is the most fitting compromise. It does mean I'll have to rewrite most of my fic, though. Although I do wonder how neurochemical triggers manage to do that. I mean, I can kind of understand how such things might make someone easier influenced by the constant stream of propaganda, I can kind of get how almost all thought processes are trodden into the ground. I don't quite get how they could target specific thoughts.

Also, one final word on my Data Angel's descriptions: she is a Data Angel. She may not have been entirely objective.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis

The manual says, and I quote:
"The ultimate in Big Brother methods, thought control effuses subtle neurochemical triggers into the atmosphere to render its population obedient, loyal and resistent to outside ideas. However, significant resources are required to maintain this level of control."

This, to me, suggest that the simple act of breathing infects you with a big dose of Hive mind-rape.

Ah thanks, yeah, that works. I'll just have my infilitrator have an antidote rather than technical gadgets.

Of course, how it affects the mind, I don't know. The masses might very well become passionate patriots, heads filled with Hive slogans and adoration for the Chairman (of course, such passion is dangerous and difficult to fully control). On the other hand, we have the route I took, which goes for the "puppet-on-strings" theory. Much easier to control and regulate: naturally born Genejacks, you might say.
But you're right. Maybe the oppression of undesirable thoughts is the most fitting compromise. It does mean I'll have to rewrite most of my fic, though. Although I do wonder how neurochemical triggers manage to do that. I mean, I can kind of understand how such things might make someone easier influenced by the constant stream of propaganda, I can kind of get how almost all thought processes are trodden into the ground. I don't quite get how they could target specific thoughts.

Hmm, we ARE far in the future, though with chemicals in the air, you have the problem that you're not reading the mind, and so can't detect 'bad' thoughts. What you CAN perhaps do is numb specific emotions, like discontent. Poeple's minds and intelligence are not affected, so they can still see something as a threat to security. The lack of discontent will just mean they're happy that they've found one and can report it to the Protectorate. I imagine it wouldn't be a matter of 'let's spray chemicals and they'll be fine'. Good old propaganda and hidden police will still have a place. So basically 'Police STate' and 'Thought Control' complement each other. (there's a thought, how would a democracy with Thought Control look like? )

And of course, it explains why the system is failing. Poeple build immunity to it, and the knowledge of how to adapt the chemicals is lost. They can only make more of the same gas. (and even then, do they know what they do? Or do they use a pre-Spasm machine, and once that breaks down... end of the line? And this might also mean that the cities they took over in the last years might NOT be equipped with the system, since they don't have the savvy to instal it. So a lot of, for example, the Believer Cities are opressed with standard brutal police methods, punishment spheres, etc.

[Hydro]

Korn,

Yes, I quite agree: SMAC is a rich universe that will live long past the shelf life of the game itself. I can occasionally get into other genres (such as Birth of the Federation or even Space Empire VI Star Trek Mod) but they can’t hold a candle to SMAC. cIV is pretty boring (and unstable to boot on my PC). Their back story is thin, or non-existent.

I can see how a Police/FM/Knowledge SE would make the Spartans very concerned about the Gaians. A big MW force would be hard to deal with if they have a -30% attack – almost negating the natural attack bonus. It would make the Gaians their first target, I think.

I also like your Gaian Trigger, where the Gaians use the massive PB ecodamage to trigger their retribution. This is fitting, especially since they’ll thrive in a fungus and worm rich environment (the ultimate in Gaian terraforming!).

You are quite correct about the Spartans. I see them strategically nuking the PKs so they can conquer the rest. With those modestly developed Gaian cities and big, juicy PK cities under their belt they’d have massive resources, and be a big cause for concern since they’d have more land and cities than the Hive or UoP. Too bad the Hive and UoP got involved and pasted their (very large) continent of cities…

Rand,

I see thought control as being from a number of means: chemical, conditioning, punishment, reward. To some extent it goes on all the time – after all, why do most children have the cultural norms and religious affiliation of their parents? In my mind the key to SMAC thought control is how effective it is, and how myopic the goal. So by all means let your imagination run for a bit. I’m sure Yang will not let petty preconceptions deter him from Pure Thought within his People’s Utopia!

Hydro

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
Hmm, we ARE far in the future, though with chemicals in the air, you have the problem that you're not reading the mind, and so can't detect 'bad' thoughts. What you CAN perhaps do is numb specific emotions, like discontent. Poeple's minds and intelligence are not affected, so they can still see something as a threat to security. The lack of discontent will just mean they're happy that they've found one and can report it to the Protectorate.

I don't disagree with you. And if, one day, I become everything I hate that's probably the way I would go around doing it.

But here's something to consider: this is the Hive. Hive. Yang's quotes throughout the game kind of signify that he is striving for a humanity that knows no individuality, who are small parts of the great hive. Who have embraced the self of group, you might.

Making people happy so that they're not prone to revolt could work from a police-control perspective. However, from the Hive's ideological perspective it doesn't make that much sense. They are still individuals. I think, perhaps, they would try to create something that would destroy (or suppress) the sense of self.

On an entirely unrelated note...

In my story I toyed with the idea that, now that the Gaians are gone, mankind's developing psychic abilities have been lost and mindworms can no longer be tamed or grown by anyone simply because it were the Gaians who made the connection with Planet (and also maybe because Planet became a bit miffed with humanity what with all those Planet Busters landing on its surface).

Any thoughts on that?

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by korn469
Hydro,

Hey how are you? It's hard to believe that almost eight years later I still find the SMAC back story fascinating. I'd say it's one of the best game stories ever.

I think that the period of time between the two PB exchanges should be small, without any minor spasms caused by PBs. Though I think that Planet's emerging intelligence coupled with ecodamage should have produced some localized minor spasms which resulted in a few devastated cities. More like major natural disasters than a global catastrophe. I could see the Gaians beginning to understand what's happening, then start to develop ways of harnessing their know of Planet. When I played the Spartans I would often run a combination of Police State/Free Market/Knowledge (+2 Support, +2 Morale, +2 Economy, +2 Research, -1 Efficiency, -1 Industry, -2 Police, -2 Probe, -3 Planet). So if this was the case along with the Gaians going green there could be a big discrepancy between the two. The Spartans could have feared that the Gaians were going to get a significant military advantage from captured mind worms. Finally the Spartans carry out a series of mostly tactical PB strikes against PK/Gaian military targets. Obviously they would destroy some cities, but their objective was to conquer not annihilate the alliance.

As they begin to overwhelm the alliance after this surprise PB strike, the UoP and Hive strike back at the Spartans in a fairly massive PB reprisal. The Spartans launch counter strikes against them. This UoP/Hive (who are enemies and maybe they launched strikes against each other) strike seriously damages Spartan territory, though both of those factions suffer as well. However they are more intact. Although wounded, the Spartans are still mopping up the Alliance, ultimately preparing to get revenge on both the Hive and UoP. At this time then the Gaians try to invoke Planet to defend them from the Spartans. This action coupled with the massive damage from the recent PB attacks results in the Spasm. Mind worms devastate most of humanity, but Planet who wasn't ready to flower into full intelligence yet goes fairly silence after the Spasm. The Splinter factions appear in the chaos. Then finally the Hive begins to recover and enslave all of its weaker neighbors.

My two cents on this? (man, I've got a lot of cents for someone who vanished from this forum for YEARS)

1: I think we should keep the Federal Alliance/Axis thing, with Spartan/Hive/UoP on one hand and Gaean/PK/Believers on the other, Morgan raking in the profits. So The SPartans wouldn't exactly be alone against the Gaeans. Nor would the UoP and Hive 'strike back' at them. They were just fine (well, maybe somewhat horrified, who will say) at the Axis getting their back broken like that.They're just three a;llies that notice that it's now between the three of them, and with Pandora's box opened, well...

2: ANother thing. I wouldn't even SAY who fired those first fateful six planetbusters. Back then I assume it would be a horrible stigma, so they wouldn't really be yelling it from the rooftops, and after countless years, info would be lost. Let everyone say of it what they want.

Once the nukes started flying though, all bets were off, and I'm going out on a limb and say the last years before the Spasm reminded the leaders a lot of the last years of earth. I can even see most of them worrying late at night. "It's all coming full circle... back where we started... but no way out this time."

Of course, exactly how 'close' these alliances were is unknown, so up to the choice of the teller and which sources he chooses to believe. Did the Spartans and The Hive actually respect eachother's strength and at some point plotted to divide the world honestly, or was their alliance barely hiding the 'once this Axis is done, you're next!' feeling. Did Pravin and Miriam meet as friends in the Axis, standing together and remembering the good feelings, or did Lal see nothing but a zealous tyrant in Miriam and Miriam nothing but a weak enabler of sinfulness in Lal, and was their alliance purely because they needed each other? Those are matters I feel we shouldn't decide but let every speaker decide for himself.

Of course, my character has spoken to Miriam, but hey... Miriam is... not quite in her best condition upstairs. Anything she says should be taken with a grain of salt. She MIGHT say what she has done... but she might just be saying what she wishes she had done instead.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis

I don't disagree with you. And if, one day, I become everything I hate that's probably the way I would go around doing it.

But here's something to consider: this is the Hive. Hive. Yang's quotes throughout the game kind of signify that he is striving for a humanity that knows no individuality, who are small parts of the great hive. Who have embraced the self of group, you might.

Making people happy so that they're not prone to revolt could work from a police-control perspective. However, from the Hive's ideological perspective it doesn't make that much sense. They are still individuals. I think, perhaps, they would try to create something that would destroy (or suppress) the sense of self.

Good point. A faction is more than the sum of its SE choices. Of course, taking individuality might not necessarely mean draining ones intelligence. It might mean Hiverans have no concept of family or names or privacy, but especially considering technological limitations, as well that it has to be somewhat POSSIBLE for our people to do something, I'd say they still retain basic human abilities. EVenthough Genejacks exist, a city with ONLY genejacks is not something Yang would want. Many citizens do need a sizeable amount of independant thought for the good of the collective. Just that that independant thought has to be for the good of the group.

On an entirely unrelated note...

In my story I toyed with the idea that, now that the Gaians are gone, mankind's developing psychic abilities have been lost and mindworms can no longer be tamed or grown by anyone simply because it were the Gaians who made the connection with Planet (and also maybe because Planet became a bit miffed with humanity what with all those Planet Busters landing on its surface).

Any thoughts on that?

Nice, though I'd add a twist. Some people CAN develop psychic powers. It's just not... very smart. Look at it from Planet's perspective. It's the mind of a ten year old, wondeirng about the sometimes irritating, sometime sinteresting Earth-creatures. One group (Gaians) of them tends to be nice, and it talks to them a lot. Then all of a sudden, something happens that relaly, really hurts it. (6 PB) Its friends are shocked, but say this won't happen again, though they do sound scared and uncertain. Shortly thereafter... its friends vanish for the most part. (Gaians go bye bye) And some years later.

The fragile, Planetmind, with the mental powers of a ten year old, gets utterly raped and tortured as Factions start throwing Planetbusters around like it's candy.

I don't think Planet would be 'a bit miffed' I think Planet would go MAD. And any empath who starts getting somewhere? He goes mad too. And they might start sharing Planet's thoughts regarding 'removing the scourge that is humanity' So basically, only the Cult... maybe.... still has Empaths... and they might be less of a 'faction' a nd more of an actual cult. Perhaps they could have a tendency to 'use' ruins of bases that died though. I assume the other factions might still develop natural empaths... only to do their damn best to root them out, because empaths go mad and end up taking mindworms to the Children Creche.

Hmm.. actually, Empaths in this world sound a lot like Male Channelers in Wheel of Time.

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
I don't think Planet would be 'a bit miffed' I think Planet would go MAD.

You do realise I sometimes use understatement, right?

I assume the other factions might still develop natural empaths... only to do their damn best to root them out, because empaths go mad and end up taking mindworms to the Children Creche.

Why should they? If I'm not mistaken (and I admit I may very well be), empaths and other psychics in the game start appearing when a faction pursues the Centauri technologies. This suggests that only when working with Planet can humanity develop their psychic talents.

However, with their easy use of Planet Busters, the remaining factions have pretty much forsaken Planet and the voice of Planet has fallen silent. Why should there be empaths?

Game mechanics aside, it would just make for a good story, in my opinion. If The Path to Transcendance is kind of the Humanity's Ultimate Destiny, then the death of the Gaians and the complete loss of the empaths (who are pretty important in the Book of Planet) means that humanity has gone off course, drifting without real purpose, never getting anywhere.
And then when the Gaians somehow rise from the ashes, as Planet begins to whisper once again, as empaths are born once more, the current status quo becomes threatened (somehow). The factions need to make a choice, to remain in stasis on a war-torn Planet or attempt to embrace the rising change. All of which, of course, leading to one great big climactic battle and whatnot. It's a story, after all.