Comments on "Joe"

[Sovereign]

ahhh... glad to hear there's a possible "joe" sequel!

In my opinion, two suspenses are driving me crazy... the council "who will win?" and the take-down of the cyborg factory.

Personally, I'm rooting for the Hive. Maybe its the small dictator inside of me or maybe its because I enjoy playing or pact'ing with the Hive in the SMAC and SMAC-X games.

I'm like "Hey you! Don't let Lal win or I'll time and parallel-reality warp over and kick your butt, Yang!"

.... Or "Cmon, Joe! Kick some Datatech butt, and oh by the way, make sure these people learn that hacking isn't the way to survive. Or I shall come over and kick your butt from my reality and time."



I personally can't figure out how a faction totally focused on hacking, anarchy, and espionage can build a civilization in a hostile world like Chiron. The other factions can, since they have ideals of survival, but can you electronically hack the enviroment to give you farms and mines? Or create armies? Or have a ordered government with anarchy? What good does espionage gain other than intel info... do they espionage mind worms or magically make armies?

I can see the other factions actually focusing on the task at hand, with order, organization, government, and a belief of democracy, Bible, emanicpation, preserve enviroment, and so forth.

Thats why I always eliminate the Datatech faction first in any SMAC-X game I play. Their faction makes no sense, and a despicable bunch. They seem to usually declare vendetta or sneak attack me, more than even Yang, Santiago, and Miriam.


Also, I'm curious. How do you have new factions crop up in the SMAC-X game after it is well underway? The Cybernetic Consciousness "popping" up, and I thought the maximum of factions were 7. I count PK, Sparta, Pirates, Datatech, Caretakers, Morgan, Gaians, Hive, University, dead Believers and Drones, Usurpers, and Cybernetic Consciousness. That comes up to 13 factions in one game. I apologize if I'm being analyztical, but I remember you posting a map of your game and I saw like 8 factions on it when there's supposed to be 7 max in any given game.


At any rate, I really enjoy Joe and am looking foward to a hopeful Joe 2.

[GeneralTacticus]

Thats why I always eliminate the Datatech faction first in any SMAC-X game I play. Their faction makes no sense, and a despicable bunch. They seem to usually declare vendetta or sneak attack me, more than even Yang, Santiago, and Miriam.

Also, whatever you do, NEVER pact with them (except in a submission pact). They seem to take it as a license to probe away every tech you have.

[Kassiopeia]

James Bond 2100 is not gone. As a matter a fact, I read it last night.

Keep up the good work. Aki Luttinen as a name is so... Finnish. Too bad it's the name of a male.

*sparing rest of his comments until the story is finished*

[Alinestra Covelia]

Another episode is up but the suspense is still there. You're all going to hate me for this!

Sovereign - as regards to a "Joe" sequel, I already have a few ideas, again largely focussed on the internal workings of the Hive. My biggest problem will be time constraints - I have already spent over two years writing Joe, and I'm not sure, with my graduate degree about to begin, whether or not I can spare the time and effort to write another such piece.

Also, part of the problem is that I've already pulled out all the stops with Joe - I'd hate to write a sequel that couldn't match up to the first work! That's happened with many films and quite a few books too (Catch-22's sequel, Closing Time, springs immediately to mind, as does Hannibal).

As for your argument against the DataTech, I think somewhere in the first page of this discussion thread (and roughly two years ago so don't worry!) somebody mentioned that too. I agree, actually. I don't think the Data Angels are a particularly convincing separate faction on their own, although as a terrorist organization or subversive spy ring, they are slightly more convincing.

Note that DataJack Roze does not, in my story, do much actual leading per se. This may be indicative of the difficulties of making this faction believable.

And yes, I'm aware that there are more than seven factions running around on the map: there are nine if you count Hive, Uni, UNP, Gaians, Morgan, Pirates, DataTech, Caretakers, Spartans. "Dead" factions consist of Drones, Cult, Believers, Usurpers. That makes 13, not including Zeta-5, which is about to be reinstated as the tenth global government.

This is not a true reflection on the game itself, which indeed only had seven factions (in fact fewer than that, by the time I got to this particular state of affairs... hum-de-ho-de-hum! ) but then again I thought that in any story about the SMAX world, I'd really have to at least mention every last faction. After all, there's a whole history given to them - what right to I have to say "actually, they never existed"...

Kassiopeia: Where's James Bond 2100? I thought it was erased! Can you give us a URL?

As for Aki's name, I also know it is a male name. (I read Authunars thalltr when I was at college and remembered that King Svein's wicked steward - who tries to steal Authun's bear - was named Aki.) That is why I refer to the Algorithm itself as merely "Zeta-5". On the few occasions that I mention "Aki" as a name, I always mention that the human shell no longer had a gender. I don't know what a neuter version of "Aki" should be - knowing the very small number of Finnish people to which it could apply, there probably isn't one!

Notice that when I talk of the young girl back in her hometown of Hollingsdall, I use "Aka" instead. I heard somewhere that this is the female version of the same name and I thought it would be better to get facts right rather than perpetuate a Firaxian mistake.

So even though Firaxis made an error with the naming of Aki, I tried to explain this through her eventual ungendered nature. Largely, I've been successful.

What I can't explain is how they got Sheng Ji Yang's name entirely fouled up. The Chinese have their surnames first, so rightfully he should be called Chairman Sheng (notice Mao ZeDong is never called "Chairman Dong"). This appears to have slipped Firaxis' usually-strict accuracy standards.

Perhaps nobody brought it up when Michael Ely was writing his story "Journey to Alpha Centauri". If you read that, you will notice that Zakharov's name was originally "Saratov", but Russian feedback persuaded Ely to change it to a more feasible name. Maybe there just weren't enough Chinese people reading the story to make a difference.

This cultural confusion is also a minor theme in the Council in "Joe". I didn't spend too long on it, because I didn't want it to become a mid-story rant, but Lal's response in the story is sadly indicative of many Westerners' responses on this forum and elsewhere - "yeah, so we got the Chinese name wrong, but so what? Our names don't work that way".

From what I can tell, the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean naming systems all tend to put family name first. I'm not sure about the southeastern Asian countries, though.

Oh, by the way, I did not make up or research the surname "Luttinen" myself. If you check http://www.firaxis.com/smac/ you can find a wealth of information on faction leaders that you can't get anywhere else - not from the game, not from the manual. That website also has the original name of Zeta-5, though it still gets her first name wrong.

In writing "Joe", I took three sources as being canonical, and which I did not plan to contradict if at all possible.

The first is the game itself and the manual that comes with it (in fact, I once mistakenly wrote that Planet has a 24 hour cycle... later, when I reread the manual, I had to go back and change every single time reference of previous chapters to account for its 18 hour cycle!).

The second is the official Firaxis website http://www.firaxis.com/smac/ which has, amongst other things, Aka Luttinen's original name and birthplace.

The third is Michael Ely's original piece of work "Journey to Alpha Centauri".

In places, these works occasionally contradict each other (eg Sheng Ji Yang's real rank onboard the Unity is variously given as "Executive Officer" or "Ship's Doctor" - which should actually be Lal's post) and I just chose whichever option best fit my story.

As far as faction leader characters are concerned, I tend to lean more towards "Journey" than the game. Miriam especially is a much more interesting character in the "Journey" story than the game makes her out to be. Chairman Sheng is probably the only exception to this, as his character is hardly (if at all) developed in Ely's work. His in-game quotes are, however, fascinating to say the least.

Of course, in this story Chairman Sheng probably owes more of his character to my own play style than anything else, as this story developed out of a game of SMAX I played. But in real life I smile more than he does.

[Mr. President]

From what I can tell, the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean naming systems all tend to put family name first. I'm not sure about the southeastern Asian countries, though.

Many speakers of languages from the Malay group (Indonesian, Malaysian, Singaporean Malay, Minangkabau, Acehnese, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, etc.) only have one name (like the former President Suharto). When people do have a given name and a family name, the family name is written last. What the person is called in speech, though, is not consistent: the Indonesian writer Ali Akbar Navis is called Pak (Mister) Navis, whereas the Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir Mohammad, is called Dr. Mahathir.

I also agree with the analysis of the DataTechs. Computer hacking is perhaps the most tenuous base for a society even in a game that contains the Cult of Planet and the Nautilus Pirates.

[Mr. President]

Author of the "Least Descriptively Titled SMACfic" award contender.

My current one is of course called The Hunt, but I think yours still wins.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Kassiopeia: Where's James Bond 2100? I thought it was erased! Can you give us a URL?

I could bump it while I'm at it. It's two years old, I almost smelled dust when rummaging through the ancient threads of AC-Fiction.

So even though Firaxis made an error with the naming of Aki, I tried to explain this through her eventual ungendered nature. Largely, I've been successful.

You are absolutely right.
"Aka" is rather interesting though, since the Finnish word "akka" is a mild version of the word "btch". Aka's fine though, I do think there are some Finnish ladies with that name.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Gosh - Hiveria with Love is kind of embarrassing to read again, after all this time... Is there any way of making it sink without trace?

Two more episodes of Joe are up. Stay tuned for the conclusion up sometime tomorrow! (Possibly.)

[Alinestra Covelia]

Note: I went back to alter a few things in the previous four episodes. Nothing much - a word here, a word there, mostly for dramatic effect.

However, I did correct a slight inaccuracy concerning the objective locations of Joe and Dritnam. Originally I had assigned them objectives, and then halfway through the mission they suddenly changed with no explanation. I have corrected the objectives and they are now consistent.

Apologies for this slight oversight.

[Sovereign]

Hmmm.... Aki seems like a female name. I've seen and heard quite several women and girls named Aki.

Also, are you aware of the the Final Fantasy Movie? The one entirely made out of CG, with the ghost aliens and stuff? The female Hero is Aki Ross, so its not that bad.

Aki seems and sounds feminine as well.

[Kassiopeia]

True. Aki is an Asian female name. As is Mika (IIRC) and Ari (IIRC). However all three are male names in Finnish (LightEning, if you know him, is Ari IRL, and there are sportsmen like Mika Salo and Aki Parviainen, for instance).

Very bizarre.

But the "Aki" in question here is obviously from Scandinavia (Finnish surname, Luttinen, and Swedish/Norwegian/Danish hometown, Hommsdall (sp)).
Of course, if she were born to a Japanese mother and a Scandinavian father, but I do think the father would have objected the name.

Oh, and I've still got trouble reading a scifi novel I wrote when I was thirteen. The shame, the shame!

[Sovereign]

Hmm. Pray do tell what that sci fi is. At least what was it about, like a crossover or something?

I won't nitpick on your first sci fi, kass

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Sovereign
Hmm. Pray do tell what that sci fi is. At least what was it about, like a crossover or something?

I won't nitpick on your first sci fi, kass

1.) It's already been nitpicked enough as it is
2.) You're jacking the thread now (as am I )
3.) I swear I had a third pointer but I lost it. =/
Edit: Remembered it. It wasn't my first "sci fi". I wrote my first science fiction story when I was nine.

[Sovereign]

THWACK!

I'm starving from lack of new Joe material! Man... where's that bottle of "Swirling Plot" to satisfy my thirst and hunger?!

*PANICS*


Ahhhhh.... much better.

*Slurps some fan-fic from SpaceBattles.com*

[Main_Brain]

Mhh I thought that was the End?
For what I read there werent really open storylines?
I mean the Last states that Yang has his Masterplan already executed :=)
anyway would be a Good End.. Morgan goes to Bed.. it.. has something
Hail da Chairman