New PBEM Classic SMAC

[vyeh]

I don't see a way to adjust the accumulated labs toward the tech currently being researched. I propose that I simply give each player the tech they are currently researching in addition to the techs already acquired.

[St Jon]

Fine by me and seems fair and straight-forward.

Thanks again.

[florin79c]

NAY !

I think at this point a restart will be the thing to do. Sorry Vyeh but looks like i was the one in disadvatage and this will only disatvantage me more.

I would like Monty's coment on this as well.

[vyeh]

I've already recorded the positions and am in the middle of setting up the University. I've already set up the Hive and Morgan.

There have been some SE switches (although one of them must have just occured given the message at the beginning of the turn).

I could go through and figure out how the other 3 players (inadvertently) took advantage of their easier difficulty level.

As an aside, I don't expect inexperienced players to realize that it cost 40 credits to change one SE setting (and 135 to change 2) at Transcend.

At this point, it looks like Morgan (Friendly Fire) and University (mmontgomery) might have benefitted from a decrease in SE switching cost.

It doesn't look like anyone benefitted for more than the last turn from not having a drone they should have had (since a police unit would have allowed bases to grow to 2).

Perhaps we could fix the disadvantage if Friendly Fire and mmontgomery could tell me how much it cost to switch SE and I could deduct the difference from their energy reserves.

And it looks like zsozso reported the problem as soon as he could have been aware of it and he has gained no advantage from his easier difficulty level.

By the way, simply toggling the scenario rules (as Mart suggested) doesn't seem to be enough. Googlie mentioned a procedure where each faction is temporarily given a tech enabling a society model and one checks to see if the SE switching cost is right.

[zsozso]

As vyeh said, in my case starting from the beginning of the last turn we played with drone riot for pop2 base would completely remove any advantage I got from not being in transcend difficulty. I do not know what is the situation for Monty and FF. If their advantages can also be fully rectified then we could go on. But I am also OK with restarting, so mark me down as ABSTAIN for the vote.

ps: Does the tech cost depend on difficulty level ? If it does then we must restart because that cannot be fixed for all the players.

[St Jon]

I cannot remember the the exact cost - for some reason I can remember it to have been ?8. It was not very much but I didn't even think about it at the time. I'm fine with either an adjustment to my Energy or a re-load though Morgan is going to be in big problems with no Energy and Drone riots everywhere. So if Florin does not think it can be made fair then a re-start otherwise I will face the Drones!

[florin79c]

I'm still wating on monty's idea of this.

[vyeh]

I cannot remember the the exact cost - for some reason I can remember it to have been ?8. It was not very much but I didn't even think about it at the time. I'm fine with either an adjustment to my Energy or a re-load though Morgan is going to be in big problems with no Energy and Drone riots everywhere. So if Florin does not think it can be made fair then a re-start otherwise I will face the Drones!

I went into the save you provided me. An SE switch costs 24 credits when it should have cost 40. Assuming you only made one SE switch, I would deduct 16 credits from your position.

Edit: Friendly Fire, while you're waiting for mmontgomery to respond regarding this game and Ironwood to respond regarding the other game, you might be interested in looking at this thread on playing Morgan. In particular, CEO Aaron plays Morgan frequently.

[vyeh]

Friendly Fire,

Could you send an email to mmontgomery? Maybe he only looks into the TTT to post that he has sent the turn or when the turn is overdue.

I've currently replicated the players positions with the exception that I need to replicate the explored portions (that involves creating some locusts to sweep out the explored area and then deleting them; unfortunately, if you reveal a square, you can't make it hidden again).

A restart would be pretty straightforward. I would go into the original scenario and make very sure that the difficulty levels have taken for each faction (probably by temporarily giving each faction a tech that gives a society model and making sure the SE switching cost is 40).

While I'm doing it, there was a minor issue previously raised.

Would players like to see a fat cross (base radius) around their starting positions? That way when you establish your first base, you would be able to work 20 squares rather than only 8 squares without having to move your units.

I would also establish bases for the 3 AI factions. Sadly, when the AI factions did their 24 turns in my simulation, they moved away from ideal starting positions to establish their first base elsewhere!

It looks to me that zsozso and Friendly Fire are happy with either a restart or a fix. I have the same position.

[St Jon]

Ok, email sent as requested.

[mmontgomery]

Sorry guys to be so late to the discussion.

If a reasonable fix can be done, It would advance our game by over a month, so I am good for that.

As was pointed out, I saved 16 credits on the SE switch, so take that from my energy reserves. My research was going to be done next turn, so I get no advantage from getting the current research for free, but I don't mind everyone else getting a research bonus.

As for discovery, since we are playing on a known map, I don't care if the entire map is revealed for everyone. After all, all they need to do is load the map into the editor and explore it to see all of the features anyway.

As for AI factions, definitely locate their bases for them. Heck, give them a third starting base. AI is normally just cannon fodder anyway, so this would give them a fighting chance.

All this being said, I am OK with a restart as well. Nothing really special happened, anyway. It is just that it will take some time for us to get back to where we are.

Also, just to make sure everyone knows, this Veterans map allows 7 bases to be established at normal efficiency without drone penalties. The 8th base will cause extra drones (unless you are +efficient).

Experienced players realize that expansion to the first 7 bases has to be a top priority. If you take time to do anything else other than create colony pods as fast as your population growth will permit, you will fall behind in the critical early game.

I have actually seen people prioritize building sensors under their early bases verses rapid expansion. This can be a great idea for later bases, but early growth is too important to wait for sensors to be built. If you do this, you WILL lose to someone who grows faster. At least, this has been my experience.

As for Morgan, I always switch to Free Market ASAP, and spend some money on Psych as needed for drone control, until I can rush build some Rec Commons. I consider myself an expert on Morgan, and am happy to answer questions by either post or email.

[vyeh]

I sent a PM to mmontgomery (I needed to discuss something about his position that has some competitive significance so a PM seemed the way to go).

[florin79c]

ok, go on with the game

[mmontgomery]

I replied to vyeh's message, so we should be good to go.

[vyeh]

Almost good to go. I sent another PM to mmontgomery seeking clarification.

I discovered that you can cover up a map square in the scenario generator. After I reveal the necessary map squares for the last AI faction (5 minutes), I need to:

(1) deduct energy credits from St. Jon (fka Friendly Fire) and mmontgomery (5 minutes)

(2) run through one year to set passwords (5 minutes)

(3) run through another year to check positions of the fixed version against my notes of the position from the original version (half an hour)

(4) fix any discrepancies, set passwords and check again (half an hour).