Old pbem - TTT

[wdplays]

bdanv,

I may have been confusing in expressing my stance on pod scattering.

I vote yes on pod scattering.

Will

[wdplays]

Originally posted by mmontgomery
How would you feel about playing a teams game, with me and wdplays verses florin79c and bdanv? If this is agreeable, of course the teams would be able to make pacts and trade tech with each other, but could not trade with or make a pact with the other team.

What do you think?

I fine with it.

[wdplays]

Originally posted by mmontgomery
The problem with helicopters are that they are just plain overpowered. I mean, planes are pretty powerful, but they at least are limited to one attack every two turns. While a helicopter can make multiple attacks every turn. Whoever gets copters first gets a huge advantage, until the other factions can research or steal the tech. Not only can they make multiple attacks, but they can attack units even with high defense with impunity, unless the unit is AA. Yes, they are very useful on the defense, just because they are so overpowered. No attacking cities helps, but it is very costly to mount an attack against a helicopter defended city, especially if the attacker cannot counterattack the city with his own helicopter. So this restriction still leaves helicopters overpowered, but only mainly useful for defense. As for sniping crawlers, you can always do this with a regular plane.

Montgomery,

Thanks for your response. I enjoy discussing the various theories behind this game.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should probably mention that, while I understand the reasoning, I have never really subscribed to the helo's are overpowered theory, especially if they are forbidden from hitting cities. I agree, they do present some serious challenges for your opponents if you get there first, but that's the nature of the game. If your opponent gets to a tech that gives him a major advantage, then you better start beelining for the tech that negates it. That's the penalty for not being first; you have to play catch up. Except for attacking cities, I think most of the other complaints about helo's are simply recitations of their attributes. They were meant to be powerful units. That whole tech is a pretty powerful tech. Personally, I'd rather ban the Cloudbase Acd. SP than helo's. You want to talk about something that unbalances the game and is over powered, that describes the CA in spades. If you can get it, you've really got a huge advantage.

Originally posted by mmontgomery
As for sniping crawlers, you can always do this with a regular plane.

Not really and with no where close to the same efficiency. With a helo, I can send it out to knock out 2 - 4 SC's and then return to the safety of a base. With a plane, I can only hit one SC and then have to leave it out in the open where an AA unit can take it down. Given the cost of a plane, it's rarely worth the risk or the commitment of fire power.

Having said all of that I've gotten what I wanted which was a chance to see if there was any interest in an alternative to the total ban on helo's. It appears there's not and that's ok. Designing a game is not a dictorship after all. I appreciate you guys giving my thoughts a serious look.

Will

[florin79c]

I'm not verry good at writeing english, but i understant everything that you say here and it's good that you give so much interest to it.

[bdanv]

Originally posted by wdplays
I may have been confusing in expressing my stance on pod scattering.
I vote yes on pod scattering.

I concur with bdanv and florin79c on Transcend through No survey and No rnd events through Rand social. Assuming the latest setup table is accurate regarding No scatter, I also agree with their votes on this; although, based on some of their earlier comments, I'm not sure the table is accurate. I'm in favor of having pods in the game because searching them out is another thing that has to be managed and places stresses on the faction leaders. My personal opinion is the more things a leader is forced to balance the more interesting the game is.

Sorry for that. I was eding the table when I had a power failure that left me with no internet connection for some hours.
No scatter, in the game setup screen, means: pods only at landing sites, so I say the table was accurate.

Originally posted by mmontgomery
I also am strongly in favor of crawlers for SP. I feel they are a very important part of the game. my vote is to allow crawlers to be used for SP.

If Florin79c agrees to change his vote on crawlers then I will change mine too. Anyway we have a tie on this matter and someone should do something about it.

Originally posted by mmontgomery
How would you feel about playing a teams game, with me and wdplays verses florin79c and bdanv? If this is agreeable, of course the teams would be able to make pacts and trade tech with each other, but could not trade with or make a pact with the other team.

I agree. In fact this is one of the reasons why I wanted wdplays in the game, the other being that he said to me that he wanted to join a fast playing group. This will be a team game (USA vs. Romania). Considering this, it makes sense that tech trade, or any kind of trade, should be allowed between team mates. This also means that we should have also 'Cooperative victory' enabled in the game setup.

Seems that we are close to reach an agreement on the game setup. I will mail Mart to help us with the pods and passwords, if you haven't done it already.

I'm still interested in playing a Vets map game with no tech trade and 'extended no random events'. This map was created for a tournament at CIvilization Gaming Network, with no pods on. It should tell us who's the best and I really wanna find out my skill level. I usually play no tech trade + no AA and techs from pods, but never played on a map with equal starting positions, so if someone is still interested...


***UPDATED***

NEW GAME SETUP

***UPDATED***

[mmontgomery]

No scatter, in the game setup screen, means: pods only at landing sites, so I say the table was accurate.

To be clear, I vote for pod scatter, in that I want pods distributed acrosss the whole world and seas, not just at the land sites. You last table marks "No Pod Scattering" as no, which is correct.

As for the other settings, I concur.

[florin79c]

No crawlers hurrying secret projects : no..... Do to our new 2 vs 2 idea.

So we will have 2 DataAngels? If this is how you want it, then i'm ok. Let's get this game started

EDIT : Need i ad about Tech Trade?

[mmontgomery]

Since we are all in agreement for the setup, I sent an email to mart7x5 asking if he would moderate. I hope everyone is OK with that.

wdplays, I need to get your email address. Email or PM me please.

[wdplays]

Originally posted by mmontgomery
Since we are all in agreement for the setup, I sent an email to mart7x5 asking if he would moderate. I hope everyone is OK with that.

wdplays, I need to get your email address. Email or PM me please.

Whoo, whoo, whoo ... are we in agreement? It looked like we still haven't resolved the pod issue. Last time I looked we were split 2 to 2 on pod scattering. Did somebody change their vote?

[wdplays]

Originally posted by florin79c
No crawlers hurrying secret projects : no..... Do to our new 2 vs 2 idea.

What does playing teams have to do with hurrying SPs? The whole point of an SP is that it benefits your faction as a whole; therefore, the full industrial might of your faction should be available to complete it. Not allowing hurrying of SPs is like saying that the US should have completed the Manhattan Project with only the resources of New Mexico. If mmontgomery and I manage to squeeze out a one turn research advantage in researching a tech, why should we be forced to allow the other side to beat us to the SP simply because their best city happens to be more productive than ours. That makes no sense.

P.S. For non-US friends, the Manhattan Project was the code name for the US effort to build the atom bomb during World War II. New Mexico is the state in which the project was conducted because it's basically just a big desert. Needless to say, it's not exactly an industrial powerhouse.

[mmontgomery]

wdplays,

Some of the settings are a bit confusing as to how their are worded.

Pod on: Yes
No pod scattering: No

The combination means that we are going to have pods scattered throughout the entire world. Which is my preferred setting.

No crawlers hurrying secret project: No

This means that crawlers CAN hurry secret projects. In fact, there are no restrictions on crawlers, including hurrying crawlers of any kind.

Anyway, I think that we are in agreement on this. Assuming that I am interpreting these setting correctly.

[Mart]

I can setup the new game if you wish so.
I'll wait till you have an agreement on settings.
I may have vets map somewhere in my files...

[mmontgomery]

Thanks, mart7x5! We would appreciate it!

I think we are all in agreement on the settings, assuming my previous post interpretted things correct. Can everyone chime in for final agreement?

bdanv attached the vets map on page 13 of this thread. If I knew how to do a pointer to a post, I would insert one, but I don't. I can also email it to you if this is easier for you.

wdplays, what is your time zone? I am GMT-6. Also, please send me your email address.

[wdplays]

Originally posted by mmontgomery
wdplays,

Some of the settings are a bit confusing as to how their are worded.

Pod on: Yes
No pod scattering: No

The combination means that we are going to have pods scattered throughout the entire world. Which is my preferred setting.

No crawlers hurrying secret project: No

This means that crawlers CAN hurry secret projects. In fact, there are no restrictions on crawlers, including hurrying crawlers of any kind.

I hate when I do stupid stuff like that on the internet. It lives forever. At least when I put my foot in my mouth at home, I can forget I did it.

[bdanv]

I'm little bit dissapointed about our chit-chat here above and also about our the game. I spent some time trying to setup this game and what i get is some 'remarks' about my english, and some 'useful' information about The Manhattan Project and the 'fertile' lands of New Mexico. Who do you think we are? Some guys fallen from the sky right in the middle of some civ-like game.
You pretend realism and leave the game to be decided by so many random events. It's so skirmish. I'm playing SMAC from 1999. Maybe my playing preferences doesn't meet your expectations, but I never tryied to impose something.

P.S:
Why didn't you tech traded the nuclear bomb in the WWII?
Why bother to squeeze out a one turn advantage in research when you can get it from AAs or even better, directly from the pods?