New PBEM - waterworld

[Kirov]

I know there's already one, but I've always wanted to start a waterworld game.

A CMN is needed to create a map, as it should be more than 90% water, and land tiles would be rather scattered, forming archipelagos of small islands.

All factions should be aquatic, but this is done by adding "aquatic" feature to standard factions, rather than by creating new ones. Of course, Pirates are banned.

To enhance the naval aspect of the game, I'd like to see air power seriously (and I really mean seriously) cut. I'd love the solution to allow jets and choppers only as transports. We can also enable heavy transports and move subs and other modules earlier in the tech tree.

Maritime Control Centre should rather go, as it would be more inbalancing than CV or EG. I'm sure I had also some other petty changes in mind, but forgot them atm.

So, anyone interested?

[H0bbes]

I'm interested.

[Maniac]

I'm possibly interested, depending on the settings.

Btw, since you prefer modifications, perhaps check out the SMAniaC mod in my signature (there's also a thread in the AC-Creation forum). It makes the game more interesting for naval factions IMO.

[GeoModder]

Infact, since for such a game the alphax.txt file should be more adapted then usually, I propose the file I currently use (in attachment) for my SP-games as a template.

For airpower, perhaps a modification/rule can be made that planes can only mount light(er) weapons. Let's say Chaos Gun strength as max?
This could be done by adding a fixed unit on a preq tech in the units section.
Also, in this file, I switched choppers with noodles and reduced chopper movement (to 5) but increased noodle movement (to 12)

Changes are documented in the beginning.

Btw, why forbidding the Pirates? For their free ability -and free facility?

[GeoModder]

Darn, I forgot to attach the file.
Here it is:

[Maniac]

Those tech tree changes make the gameplay even more linear than the standard game. There are a limited number of must-have key techs of which the order in which they have to be researched is fixed from year one, and the rest can be ignored for a long while. In fact, b-lining to the others spells certain doom and lagging behind other players who do follow the golden path.

[GeoModder]

I can imagine a military based player b-lining to Silksteel Alloys in a naval power setup and 'surprising' those going for more 'powerful' techs... especially if air power is limited.

Blame me that reality limits tech variety.

[Kirov]

Maniac, I downloaded your mod like 2 days ago, but didn't have time to check it by now... Let me take a look and I'll let you know if I'm up for testing it.

One more thing before that: I know this is rather a discussion for AC - Creation, but Geo has already mentioned realism. Well, in my opinion, realism is often contrary to good gameplay and for example, changing sth in the tech tree just because of realism can only make it worse for play. A game has to be fun, that's it. If SMAC would be better with planet busters before infantry, I'd be all thumbs for it.

That's why I may have problems with accepting Smaniac mod, which, as I have read in Creation section, covers all those "realistic" issues in SMAC tech tree, which for me are simply irrelevant and not worth changing. I used to toy with my alphax.txt a lot and never had any problems with putting Genejack factories in High Energy Chemistry, because this is the level I believed that fac belongs...

[Maniac]

I like to believe SMAniaC is both more realistic and more balanced than the standard game.

[Kirov]

It was just a side note, I'm up for testing your mod. Hobbes, are you fine with that? GeoModder, are you joining our game? You didn't actually specify that, but feel invited. If yes, then we can start asking people around. I'd go for Darsnan as I like his AI's.

[H0bbes]

I am interested but not sure I'll have a large amount of time to play with the mod... which would be a big disadvantage if there are major changes.

[GeoModder]

Hobbes, there are quite an amount of changes, but it shows itself after a while.
And since it's a PBEM, there's no need to rush a turn in 10 minutes.

You can count me in, Kirov.

[Kirov]

All right guys, so let's pick factions. I'd play Spartans (been a long time since last time). Remember, all factions are aquatic and start with Doc:Flex as a bonus. If slots of 8 options don't allow for that, we'll have to come up with sth.

I'm just PMing Darsnan.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kirov
It was just a side note, I'm up for testing your mod.

That's great!

All right guys, so let's pick factions. I'd play Spartans (been a long time since last time).

If you're playing SMAniaC, will you also use the factions that come with SMAniaC, some of which are slightly edited? IIRC the Spartans are exactly the same (except for their preferred SE choice, but that only matters for AIs), but eg the Gaians, Cult and Morganites would play differently.

Anyway, if we play SMAniaC, perhaps you guys should choose what faction I play? Though I actually haven't played the mod myself that much (I like creating it more than actually playing it ), I assume I'd have an unfair advantage due to being the one who created the tech tree and thus already know what could be good strategies (eg b-line to Psionics for psi armour, removing the problem that weapons are always stronger than armour in sea combat in the standard game, which made it all a simple matter of striking first).

I guess I should also write some short guide on possible tech b-lines.

Also I'll update SMAniaC's alphax.txt again tonight. While playing the little scenario I created, I noticed the costs for the resonance laser, D6 & D8 armour are wrong. Missile cost has also been increased by a mineral row.

[Kirov]

Maniac, I'd guess if we are to test your mod, it'd be better for us not to start with what you already know as obvious strategies and b-lines, but rather figure them out for ourselves. I think we should also play the factions as modified by you.

Personally, I'm gonna learn your mod the hard way, as I simply haven't several hours in a row to play SPs these days (probably this year), I just took a quick glance at your tech tree, SE options and so on. Although this is gonna mean playing a bit blindfold, I hope it will only add to fun. I never play having only victory in mind, so am fine with getting my but* kicked if it helps you developing your work.

A piece of advice to you: as you really are in a much better position than the rest of us, perhaps it's a good time to play a faction which you suspect underpowered, or check some other than obvious b-lines. You are likely to stumble upon things you overlooked or side effects of your changes this way, which is crucial if you want to test your mod thoroughly.

Perhaps we can also play this game partially "open" and share our ideas, thoughts and comments as they appear during gameplay, of course not too much to reveal our strategies and secrets. But I would also leave that decision to the rest of players.

Hobbes and Geo, are you fine with such a situation? Not only about the last point, but in general about testing SManiac mod rather than "I must win" stance?