SMAC (Not SMACX) game CMN needed

[Senethro]

Probe actions? I often find the idea that you must announce your probe actions and choose declare vendetta somewhat restrictive and not in the name of "covert operations".

[Ka Plewy]

Since I'm a newb to this, the default rules are a-ok with me!

[dacole]

hmm yea but then how do you determine if the probe would have been caught or not? Do you assume that it wouldn't if no other probe was there? I could go for that if everyone else is aggreable.

[Senethro]

If there is a probe in the square already then Probe combat will be initiated and evidence of the enemy Probe teams actions will be quite obvious, one way or the other.

Ok, clarified rule: If the probe team fails to survive the encounter then you must announce the Probe action in this thread. Obviously, this is an "honour" rule and you would be relying on each others honesty and memory to say these things. Say "aye" and you'll play by this rule for this game. Otherwise, go for "declare all" or "declare none".

Dacole: assuming that elfin is a newbynoobnoob as well, better sit down with him and go through the rules. Not appearing on the thread won't be an excuse for doing something wrong. This especally applies to using CPU actions to override a human players faction. (demanding withdrawal, offering council bribes, accepting council bribes.)

[Ka Plewy]

Aye, that rule is fine with me.

[elfis]

hello!

http://www.civgaming.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-103.html

Is there a better list of standard rules?

elfis at netid dot pl

[Senethro]

Lets go.

Beware the Pagan, the Liar, the Zealot.

Turn begins with Raptor, then dacole, then elfin then Ka Plewy. Make sure you know the email addy of who you're sending to.

Here is the tracking thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133401

[dacole]

lets see the pagan...Gians? (not really pagan just enviormentalists but heh) Zealot Miriam...Liar hmm..Lal? Odd never heard lal refered to that way especially not by one who at one time used the UN flag...(when did you change that by the way interesting..). Guess the recent findings of corruption made you distraught?

[Senethro]

I think its possible to make positive and negative versions of all faction leaders while still remaining true to the character. Although we perceive Santiago as a mostly destructive force there is no reason why she could not be an honourable warrior in charge of a Democracy/planned/power.

By contrast Zakharov experiments on his own citizens (Research hospital!) and Morgan feels that the ability to make money is a good measure of an individuals "worth".

All the faction leaders have their obsessions and manias, with the most normal of them all being Lal. These obsessions can make them good or evil.

The exception I feel is Yang, who is just Yang and not really subject to conventional morality.

[binTravkin]

with the most normal of them all being Lal

Have you read the AC stories?
He built representative buildings instead of habitation facilities saying "we need to shine bright among the other's to make them believe in us".
I think that was nothing to be proud of and could be classified as a lie or propaganda (which means 99% the same).

[Senethro]

Yes, I'm aware of Lal's dark side such as his ordering the execution of a relatively innocent prospective crew member through manipulation of established rule structures so that his wife could take his place.
His family and mind/machine interface seem his greatest concerns.

[Ka Plewy]

Quixotic. Both definitions, the idealism so vast that the goals are unreachable, and the capricious and impulsive apply to Lal. He's the only AI I know who I can tick off by doing nothing. In games where I don't run PS, Lal will start off warm and friendly, and gradually slide into vendetta, regardless of his power level or mine.
If I'm weak and he's strong, then he thinks he can manage my people better than I. If I'm strong and he's weak, then he fears that I cover his empire (I do, but that's beside the point). He's the one leader I can count on to attack me, without any change in SE.
So, his nature isn't as a Liar (to himself), but in the end he becomes a liar to those around him.
I believe his ideology has driven him crazy, and he's unable to make pragmatic decisions in his own best interests. His flexibility is actually the opposite, inflexibiity, he becomes paralyed with the options at his disposal, and can't or won't move. He's the archetypal liberal (as defined by Frank Herbert), a closet aristocrat, and can't own up to the fact, and it drives him crazy.

[dacole]

Interesting where did you see that as the definition of a liberal in frank herberts works? I've read all of the Dune books and didn't see that. Though after about the first two the totally oddness made it impossible for me to see anything really. I also thought he seemed to contradict himself in that paul atredies son seemed to undue everything he did. Even in the last books though which got ver very odd I still felt like he was trying to say something and that I just couldn't see it.

I've always been friends with Lal in my AI games, the gains always try to fight me (though that's because I run free market). Of the original seven factions Yang is also the only one that I consider actually evil, though the perversion of love that Miriam practices comes very very close. Zak (who I play mostly) believes science is worh any sacrifice, he wouldn't pull people off the street and experiment on them but criminals/retarted you bet. He is not mengela, but he wouldn't see a problem experimenting with embroys either. Morgan is the classic social darwinist republican no welfare at all sink or swim, I've always seen the gians as simple enviormentalists not eco-terrorists (unless the situation warrents) more the sierra club and less earth first and greenpeace. Santiago is a warrior gueen like the spartans of old and to some extent the current united states. Quick to shoot and ask questions later but not nessecarily out for world domination, but mistrustful of everyone especially those she sees as more powerful than herself. Yang and Miriam I would say are the worst, Lal and the gians the best, the rest it's a toss up. But that's one of the things that makes the game so great, the philosphical undertones and the different characters of the factions.

Which AC stories are you reffering to binTravakin haven't seen that quote.

[Ka Plewy]

God Emperor of Dune.
Your right, Leto does undo all that Paul did, but that was the only way to save humanity. Both father and son saw the Golden Path, but only the son had the will to go down it.
I'm pretty sure that it's a conversation between one of the Duncans and Sionna's father (can't remember his name). His point is that liberals and radicals act out of the belief that they know better than the current political power and attempt to overthrow it and install themselves, gradually becoming that which they overthrew in the first place. Hence, liberals and radicals are closet aristocrats.

[Senethro]

hay guyz u r suppozed to B playin rite?

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