Open Book PBEM

[MrWhereItsAt]

/me is unsure which is which, but anxious to keep the game moving

I'll just play the turn that was sent to me.

Decide to keep the Base name "Enigma Prime" to remind myself that I was an idiot and missed turn 1!

Realise I get CentEco next turn - yay! Formers soon after.

Scout starts moving S along the river towards my initial (pre-game start) base location.

That's it.

[Snowflake]

Sneaky MWIA you.

[Quango]

On to HongHu. This appears to be Enigma's save as one of your bases has his name on it.

Moved colony pod to base sq. Build next turn.
Moved scout south into fungus. Made it.
Kept making cp at RF,CO.
Picked Cent. Eco. as tech. 3 more turns I think.

Are there any pods? I don't see any.

quango

[Enigma_Nova]

MWIA, you've made another dumb mistake.
You should have set your SE sliders to 50/0/50 to get 2 more energy this turn.
Instead, you've kept them at 30/0/70 - wasting 2 lab points and forfeiting 2 energy.

If your Spatrol wants to meet Yang you're doing this correctly. Otherwise it's best to have it troll the fungus looking for a pocket of 10 ECs.

Quango played a good turn.
------
This is, after all, a tutorial PBEM. That's why it's open-information, so newbies can look in and learn.
------

The errors made thus far (IMO):
CMN makes a damn typo in the error post - edit

1. MWIA missed his first turn
2. Quango rushed a Synth Garrison when a Scout Patrol would do
(The Scout patrol vs. Colony Pod argument is apples and oranges)
3. Quango set a Cpod in Queue instead of Stockpile, losing 1 EC.
4. HongHu altered Quango's queue,
and earning HongHu an adminslap for interference.
5. HongHu didn't post an END TURN.
Consequently, I couldn't tell WTF she did during her turn. I posted an example of how you describe what you are doing:
Motives and Explainations instead of straight orders.
6. Smacksim didn't post an END TURN.
(Smacksim's lack of knowledge about Gaian movement rates was not an error)
7. MWIA wasted 2 ECs by not changing his sliders.

This message brought to you by CMN.

[Quango]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
3. Quango set a Cpod in Queue instead of Stockpile, losing 1 EC.

Why do I get an extra EC with Stockpile Energy? Is this the StEnergy cheat, people have mentioned in other forums? Quango

[smacksim]

Now I'm really getting tired of this 'Tutorial' and wish I'd kept my post from yesterday. Hey, I DID keep it, for my records.

I want to rant, but am tired. Tutorial by the players, not the CMN. This is just silly. If you want to teach people how to play, say so. If you want to CMN a Pbem, say so. I think it's safe to say that all the players in this game are sick of the CMN's unannounced meddling. If you all would like to play an open game together, lets start our own. This one is dead. I quit.

-Smack


And here's my post that I edited out from above:

[Pre-post comment]: I've taken the precarious liberty of making the following comments public. I do this because it's an open forum, and this is specifically an open game. I must qualify the following comments by saying that I would normally post this in a private message. I appreciate the open nature of this 'Open Information' format, and hopefully my comments can be taken in that light. -S
[/Pre-post comment]

Enigma_Nova, this game seems quite strange to me. What exactly do you see your role as being? Frankly, I find the un-announced renaming of bases by the moderator to be an abuse of power, not to mention rude. Now, certainly you don't mean to be rude, I don't imagine. After all, you have taken the time to set up and advertise a PBEM. Perhaps I am over-reacting. Perhaps you are just an enigma. Perhaps you are having a rough time and are inadvertantly taking it out on some hapless Apolytonites who just want to have fun. Whatever the case, I can't continue with this Pbem unless we come to some understanding. Hey, it's turn one and I've had enough.

If, on the other hand, you don't wish to negotiate, please find a replacement for me at your convenience.

So here's my gripe:

The rules for the players seem quite clear, if rather blunt (IE: the language of 'Explain Yourself!' is, if not taken as humor, a bit over the top). What are the rules for the CMN? I think of a CMN as a facilitator rather than a dictator . But maybe that's just me? Please, if you want us to enjoy the game, step back.

The expectations for the players seemed clear enough to me at the time I signed up, however, my expectations seem to have been off. I imagined that we'd all enjoy the open game format that you've put together, and that would be that. We'd play an otherwise normal Pbem. I imagined that you'd facilitate any troubles and cheer us on. What I am experiencing is, well, strange, to be mild about it. So I apologize for misunderstanding the flow of this particular game. It's your game, and apparently not really ours. If I'm horribly mistaken and/or we can negotiate, I'll continue. Otherwise,

I quit.

-Smack

[Enigma_Nova]

Yes, it was Open Comments PBEM.
It seems I was the only one posting commentary, though.
I refrained from posting comments pre-turn, else I'd end up playing a PBEM against myself.
While I'm the type to play a public PBEM against myself, that would take up too much time.

My other role is to keep the turns moving smoothly.
To do that, I had to take over HongHu's faction.
Since you had already played your turn by that time, I thought I'd play it for you - save you doing the same thing again.

Perhaps you are just an enigma

My motive is to teach. More accurately, my motives here are to teach and learn.
To express my ideas and collect better ideas.
FYI I'm a conceited eccentric with lots of ideas - so expect lots of expression and demands for effect.

The part about having a 'rough time' will only occur when:
1. My ideas are not understood
2. My ideas aren't implemented
3. I cannot obtain what I desire
Since none of these 3 things have happened in this game, I am thus pleased with it.

I think of a CMN as a facilitator rather than a dictator

You're thinking of THIS CMN as a dictator, when in fact I am a facilitator.
I'd be a dictator if I told you your turn before you played it.
Don't ignore my love of my own opinions - or underestimate my offence when my opinions are unwelcomed.
That aspect of my mortal being is in effect here - that I see myself as a collection of my thoughts, and love to proliferate.

This game was set up as my brainchild, and as such I use it to amuse myself.
What amuses me? Expressing my ideas, having them understood and acted upon by others.
I am a natural expressive genius, after all.
I was pissed off by the ACDG (hardly any expressive, no genius), so I made a game better suited to my tastes.

To abuse my power as a CMN:
If you don't like me expessing my point of view... get the hell out and start your own game.
I'll compromise once I've had my fair share of what I want.

[Snowflake]

smacksim, I suppose everybody has his own style for doing anything. Enigma has his own style too, and unfortunetaly for us his style is that he likes to substitute the players' turns with his own. I would even be happy to listen to what suggestions and critics he could offer, if he had respected what I did. I understand him for he is really acting like himself, not deliberately doing something to piss anybody off. It is unfortunate that my style does not match with his style greatly, so I had to insist on my princeples and was not able to continue supporting his great initiative.

But I agree with you that we can always start another pbem.

[Enigma_Nova]

I have a way of moving people away, don't I?
I suppose I'm too open, expressive and expansive in my point-of-view.
On that note, ~new sig~

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
MWIA, you've made another dumb mistake.
You should have set your SE sliders to 50/0/50 to get 2 more energy this turn.
Instead, you've kept them at 30/0/70 - wasting 2 lab points and forfeiting 2 energy.

Doh! An elementary mistake, and one I don't make in Civ3... i was just anxious to get the savemoving, having missed turn one.

But I would rather be exploring non-fungus tiles ready to protect against possible worm attacks on my new CP than wasting turns trying to move a single tile into the fungus.

[Enigma_Nova]

To stop this game from dying completely, I guess someone will have to play for HongHu.
Is that correct, or is she still playing?

Smacksim's out of here, though.
Quick poll: Do I:
1. Advertise for a replacement
2. Blow up his faction
3. Restart the game

-Enigma supports option 2-

And about the fungus, I was wrong - you can't troll for worms within 1 square of your base. My bad.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I have a way of moving people away, don't I?
I suppose I'm too open, expressive and expansive in my point-of-view.

Enigma, I appreciate your openess and your light humor on treating things. This has certainly helped our relationship and my understanding toward you.

I had insisted that if I were to be in this game my turn has to be used. It is not that I believe my turn is better than your turn. It is only because I did it.

In other words my choice was already made for me.

[binTravkin]

"I have no care for the opinions of those who misunderstand me,
for those who misunderstand me are idiots and deserve not to have opinions." - Enigma

This explains all..

no comments..

[smacksim]

Well, I guess I'll do a blow by blow reply because it just might be useful to someone. I can see that we have very different outlooks on things and I don't imagine we'll see eye to eye on these issues any time soon. So maybe these comments are just for the passing lurker.

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Yes, it was Open Comments PBEM.
It seems I was the only one posting commentary, though.

Really? We must be reading different threads then? I see plenty of commentary.

I refrained from posting comments pre-turn, else I'd end up playing a PBEM against myself.

Indeed, you already are. Why don't you post a tutorial game all by yourself? It could be quite instructional. Your knowledge of the details of the game are expert.

While I'm the type to play a public PBEM against myself, that would take up too much time.

So you'd rather take up our time while you go ahead and play our turns anyways? Odd. Just take the time. Make a contribution to Apolyton that'll mean something. How about a first-fifty-years multiplayer game with full commentary.

My motive is to teach. More accurately, my motives here are to teach and learn.
To express my ideas and collect better ideas.
FYI I'm a conceited eccentric with lots of ideas - so expect lots of expression and demands for effect.

Teaching is honorable and generous. It doesn't go well with self-centered and demanding that your own eccentric ideas get more room than anyone else's. As the adage goes: 'I'll show you the path, but you must walk it'. Teaching is showing the path and encouraging the walking. Demanding the walking has it's place, but there must be trust first. To continue the analogy, it seems you've gotten a few people together by a pathless track through the woods (open game with many right strategies possible). Then you say 'Go ahead and walk it'. But after everyone takes a first step you grab them, pull them out of the woods and then push them along the direction you want. I say, this is an odd teaching technique without some fore-knowledge and trust. That is, unless you are Zen-slapping us?

The part about having a 'rough time' will only occur when:
1. My ideas are not understood
2. My ideas aren't implemented
3. I cannot obtain what I desire
Since none of these 3 things have happened in this game, I am thus pleased with it.

I meant 'rough time' outside of the forums in real life. If that's true, I'm sorry for jumping on you. But please understand that your expectations and actions are not meeting up well with other's. On the other hand, your list of 'rough time' conditions says it all. You seem so selfish that I wonder why I bother commenting at all. As you said previously, perhaps you should play by yourself. This will guarantee that your conditions are met. Other people have their own expectations and behaviors. Quite unpredictable. Perhaps if you avoid others completely you will be happy? Or you can join the rest of us and practice some good old give and take. That means that not all your ideas will be understood and implemented, and you will not get everything you desire. That is a good thing.

You're thinking of THIS CMN as a dictator, when in fact I am a facilitator.
I'd be a dictator if I told you your turn before you played it.

Facil is from latin meaning 'easy'. To facilitate is to make-easier. A facilitator helps other achieve what they want to achieve. To facilitate your own goals is meaningless in the connotation of the word facilitate. You have not once expressed any interests in the goals and desires of your players. If you aren't a dictator, you certainly are not a facilitator. I'd call you a passive-agressive exhibitionist with nihilistic narcissistic pandemic sociopathy, but that doesn't rhyme well with 'dictator'. It also won't contribute much to a discussion to name-call. So rather I'll say that you really might value re-thinking your efforts as a facilitator. If you find no value or satisfaction in helping others achieve their goals, perhaps you should stay away from CMNing?

Don't ignore my love of my own opinions - or underestimate my offence when my opinions are unwelcomed.

Note taken.

{...}
This game was set up as my brainchild, and as such I use it to amuse myself.
What amuses me? Expressing my ideas, having them understood and acted upon by others.
{...}

Well, if that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. May I suggest that you state the above in the first paragraph of every game you set up from now on? It'll keep people unwilling to be your narcissistic pawns away, which will save everyone some time at least.

To abuse my power as a CMN:
If you don't like me expessing my point of view... get the hell out and start your own game.
I'll compromise once I've had my fair share of what I want.

I don't have a problem with you expressing your point of view. It's nice to hear suggestions or info-corrections (fungus movement for +1 green I'd forgotton!). I have a problem with:

1. Stating the rules for the players and then behaving abnormally as a CMN with no rules.

2. Playing the players turns with no notice or choice.

3. Re-naming people's bases to chastise them for their 'mistakes'. Perhaps some learn best like this. What else will you do if people don't play their turns exactly as you'd have them do? None of this was announced in the game set up. That's a must.

4. Generally being set on players playing how you want them to, rather than how they would like to play. Yes, that's 'expressing your point of view', and I think you should shut it, unless you specifically state that you intend to 'instruct' players after their turns. 'Normal' is defined by the pattern, right? In any pbems I've played, the CMN does not meddle, instruct, or chastise players. If you are going to do such, (and yes, it's 'expressing your opinion' to which you have unalienable rights) you should announce it.

As to 'compromising once I've had my fair share of what I want', well, that's just a dandy. I've never heard such honesty (if it's true). I wish our government would say the same thing (USA). However, that attitude seems juxtaposed with the role of a CMN. But maybe that's me.

-Smack

My problem is that you are meddling with the actual play turns

[binTravkin]

You seem so selfish that I wonder why I bother commenting at all.

I'd call you a passive-agressive exhibitionist with nihilistic narcissistic pandemic sociopathy, but that
doesn't rhyme well with 'dictator'

Those two are worth a sig!