Heart of Fire Tracking Thread #2

[Kody]

This bug is not allowed: On the turn a terraformer completes its terraforming task, its "flag" will be grayed out indicating that it has moved. Clicking on and activating the terraformer will allow a new terraforming command to be issued to the terraformer with the correct number of turns to completion displayed. Clicking on and activating the terraformer again, cancelling its new orders; at this point, the terraformer will have regained one movement point.

Actually under that definition it isn't the same bug. I actually mainly used an more complicated variant of the programming mistake that gave better terraforming time than the one you mentioned. I was busy trying to teach the simple version to someone when they pointed out that it was on the buglist, and that's when I found out there was a buglist. The led to a guilt trips and eventually to the private poll. Didn't really stop the guilt trips and it was a contributing factor in why I kept ducking out of the Hive all the time later into the game. Hoping someone else would play the turns. Still have guilt trips about it, especially when people call me a good strategy player.

[Hercules]

It is almost more interesting to read the commentary here than in the ACDG11 forums (when they open).

But there does seem to be confusion over some the legitamcy of some tactics.

[Kody]

I think it more comes down to whether you think it's illegal or not.

Sometimes we know something is illegal and do it anyway, if we think it's not quite breaking the rules. I think that it should be clarified that while I wasn't actually breaking the rules, motive was what counts more. My motive wasn't particularly heroic.

My guilt was more that I never could justify I was being fair in how I went about the game, even though the Hive kept a fair spotless diplomancy during my time. We were never quite sure how much other factions were skirting the edge and whether our skirting was more or less than another faction.

Maniac:
I think if you want to discourage something similar in the following game, there should be more emphasis on spirit of the game rather than fireproof rules. The peer pressure wouldn't have been to milk the game for everything you might be able to get away with. Fireproof rules just encourage people to try and find a way around them.

Also my conscience over my actions in the ACDG never developed there, they developed by reading PBEM threads and the strategy forum where they talked about the spirit of the game etc. In the ACDG it was accepted that most factions would screw other factions over given any chance, so it seemed almost acceptable.

As I was preparing for this PBEM I started reading far more about how people conduct themselves and my previous embrassment was greatly amplified.

Enigma:
By the way, thanks .

[Enigma_Nova]

Whereas I'll do just about anything to get ahead, and feel no guilt so long as I achieve my original objective.

It's that 'Killer Instinct' Kody lacks that makes him just another SMAC player with a strat guide.

My weakness, of course, is that if I can't attain my objectives or implement my ideas (A usually = B), then I get pretty upset.

[Kody]

It's that 'Killer Instinct' Kody lacks that makes him just another SMAC player with a strat guide.

Yeah but I was very happy in the Hive before I started skirting the edge after the whispers started about how everyone is willing to do everything they can get away with to win.

___________________________________

While my morals were weak enough to be perveted. I'm glad my sense of loyalty didn't.

Ironically I think that the main thing that won the game for the Hive was the loyalty. The drones repaid the loyalty and gave far more than a few cheats ever did, and I learnt how to manage economy and buildup far better than I would have ever been able to do alone. Then the fact the Drones and the Hive were really the only two strong allies in the game meant that while other factions were still hindering each other with gaining advantage. Our alliance was... using impaler's words from the cycon private forum...
"the level of cooperation between them is sick"

[Enigma_Nova]

I'm fighting you tactically, diplomatically and psychologically.
Try a bit harder, son!

Perverted Morals?
No, your morals remained the same. You just became aware of new information.
You did what was good (in your mind) until you found out that it was 'unfair'.
This in turn made you guilty, and made your actions bad.
Correct decisions on incomplete information - such is SMAX, such is life.

I don't see where Loyalty came into it.
I don't understand how Loyalty applied to me, but any way...
I suppose The Hive's people were 'communal' in the sense that everyone felt an obligation to help everyone else.
I suppose that is loyalty - the eternal support of your allies.
Such was the case between Hive and Drones.

Of course, Loyalty from Enigma is blood from a stone.
Loving expression of ideas, and understanding of concepts:
I will speak my mind, what IMO is honestly correct.
I am too eccentric, too independent, too combative and too free of mind to place faith in another above faith in myself.

- I will try to implement my good ideas. Not because of any charity to those who the ideas affect, but because it is my evolved tendency to use my mind to improve my environment.
- I will also attempt to teach others. Again not because I am concerned for them, but because I am concerned for Understanding. Understanding is one of my traits, and by spreading it around I am spreading my traits around.
- I attempt to speak the honest truth. This is a byproduct of my expressive nature - the love of speaking my mind.
I hate to have my expressive nature repressed, by the ignorance of others or the shrewdness of myself.

My personality has its place, as does yours.

[Snowflake]

Ok I'll admit that I never know that former reactivation is illegal in ACDGII. Not sure who told me about it but I've always thought that it was allowed. Again I didn't do it diligently simply because it is very time consuming. But if it is not allowed, I will admit that I was at fault in spreading words that it is allowed.

But again Kody is right. The most important thing is the spirit. If we all have the principle that we will not win the game through any kind of cheating, listed or not, then we will have the environment for a more honest and better game. I personally vow that I will do all I can to ensure this happens in the next ACDG game.

[Enigma_Nova]

So we're exchanging worldviews?
Excellent. This will keep the spam up for another 50 posts.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by HongHu
Not sure who told me about it but I've always thought that it was allowed.

We saw the Drones do it, I followed suit, then the process unfolded.

But again Kody is right. The most important thing is the spirit.

Raises the obvious question of why we play games.
I'll say it again, HongHu:
We're not all playing SMAC for the same reason, and
we all have different viewpoints on the game.
This was even more prevalent in The Hive when you presumed that enjoying ourselves was everyone's top priority.
For me, it was changing The Hive's Social System.
While implementing my ideas may make me happy, that was not the end-goal.
What's worse, you seemed to presume we enjoy similar things to similar amounts - WRONG.
Try not to presume the emotions of others - you will view them with a clearer mind and perhaps see what their emotional reactions really are.

If we all have the principle that we will not win the game through any kind of cheating, listed or not, then we will have the environment for a more honest and better game.

Unlisted cheating is hard to define.
We all think we're playing a moral game, but our sense of what is moral differs.
When two people have differing opinions of what is moral, i.e. one sees it as good and another is bad,
what scheme do you have in place?

What do you do, HongHu, when people don't agree on what is a moral occurance?
/me ensures he understands both points of view, then either teaches the feuding parties to do the same or enforces his more-informed decision

I personally vow that I will do all I can to ensure this happens in the next ACDG game.

Then read this post. You might learn something that can assist you in your objectives.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
So we're exchanging worldviews?
Excellent. This will keep the spam up for another 50 posts.

Excellent, then.

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova

We're not all playing SMAC for the same reason, and
we all have different viewpoints on the game.

Yes, I definitely agree. However, when every one has a sense of honor, the atmosphere will be changed. The few people that felt ok to do some rule bending or exploiting may not be encouraged that much.

Then read this post. You might learn something that can assist you in your objectives.

Yes, I will remember what you said and hopefully that understanding will help me in doing what I feel is right. We all try to achieve something. The result may not be exactly what we hoped. But we can always try. And make the world a little better (according to our own belief of course) in the process of trying.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by HongHu
Excellent, then.

The next HoF turn thread should be "HoF spam tracking #3: M.Y. 2118"

However, when every one has a sense of honor, the atmosphere will be changed.

PBEMs pretty much run on the honour system. I'd like to think we all have a sense of honour, but
My idea of honour is a fast turn,
Jamski's idea of honour is a polite player,
and Kody's idea of honour is a 'sploitless game.
So we have one 'sploitin ranter, one slow 'sploiter, and one slow-playin' ranter.

But we can always try. And make the world a little better (according to our own belief of course) in the process of trying.

Always in our own belief.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
We saw the Drones do it, I followed suit, then the process unfolded.

/me sees buster falling from his pedestal.

[Enigma_Nova]

o.O
You're not even in this game. Whatchew doin' spammin ma turn thread, Maniac?

[Kody]

This looks like bad trouble in the making. Maniac is winking.

I was willing to take the fall for any of my actions, but the last thing I wanted to do was make this into an accusation thread on borderline activities. Can we please keep things relatively clean in here.

I only posted a few things I wasn't sure about with the Cycon because Geomodder and I were having a discussion and he asked about it.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Kody
but the last thing I wanted to do was make this into an accusation thread on borderline activities.

/me accuses you of starting the thread topic
Must want to draw attention away from his activities...

So what's brought up this recent guilt trip, Kody?
Trying to improve your diplomatic relations by drawing attention away from your fight with HongHu?
Or just setting yourself up to be the victim so people don't notice you're tearing away headfirst in the powerchart?
You -did- mention taking any small non-exploit advantage,
but isn't making an emotional story just a -little- exploitive of the emotions of folk around here?

I mean, if he had problems he'd be seeing a shrink.
Only now he makes an emotional story about exploits
so that he can exploit the emotions of others.
And in harping about honesty, he almost deceived all of us.
GW Kody.