The level above Transcend

[Avenoct]

Yeah, right after I made my last post I remembered the techrate, 50 option to give the AI 50% off research, but the one problem with giving the AI better research is they then make even better pets.

I agree that the industry/econ/talent type bonuses are WAY too obvious and that Police is a better route for subtlety. The Rec tanks is a bit harsh, but I agree on the Former...some factions just never build formers until they have to. I'm thinking about adding a crawler as well, just for fun.

I discovered an odd thing about the 2H factions. They are wimps at diplomacy until the mid-game, and for some strange reason they get very uncooperative and downright hostile then. Not sure, but I think passive settings are really 'delayed-aggression' settings or that once the AI discovers some particular tech, or someone breaks the B-drone limit, or something, they go nuts.

-Smack

[Zakharov VII]

Very cool !

The police is really a neat idea, and the free tanks should help the AI out too.

School's back in full swing, so this'll have to wait for the weekend

Z

[Avenoct]

Z,

Sounds like you have that game in hand anyway...I think I'll apply Blake's ideas to a faction-set and set them at war against my set in an all-AI blood-match...

Also, I think I'll make a few varieties this weekend and upload a super-faction variety pack...maybe 6-7 varieties. Any further suggestions anyone?

[Blake]

Free rec tanks is not too powerfull, it happens to be exactly the bonus given to the Alien factions in SMAX.

The AI's main two failings are it's inability to terraform, and the fact it places it's bases too sparsely... a single free former just doesn't give the AI (Zak, particullary) enough terraforming power.. so maybe if you designed a Super Rover former in AlphaX and gave one to each AI, these can terraform at about 3 times the rate of a standard former...

The base placment cant really be helped... but I'm working on designing a map which is enjoyable to play for the human player, while the AI is capable of terraforming it effectively...

Here is the key:
AI's reliably plant forest on Flat/Moist and Flat/Arid terrain at <999.
AI's reliably farm+solar Rainy/Rolling 1000+. So you make sure that the %age of land which is above 1000 is quite small, but of high quality (ie rainy+rolling), that all land <999 is flat. This gives a small number of +2 nut tiles to help early expansion, but the vast majority of terrain gets forested.

Incidenetly, when i was testing my prototype for AI map design I discovered another reason the AI terraforming sucks. Those damn AI just cant leave each others formers alone, Zak and Sanitago started scrapin' and destroyed virtually every former they had between them.

My latest prototype works very well. I think I could improve it even more by messing with the worldbuilder in AlphaX (it may even be possible to generate maps the AI can play properly on...). The terrain is a little boring, but nowhere near as bad as the "Everything arid" way.

[T-hawk]

What precisely is it that Yang as AI does that works so well? By the time I get to him with Fusion Copters, he's always got his land filled with bases and terraformed wall-to-wall (not always wisely, but terraformed.) If we could figure out what makes him tick...

It can't just be the +growth and +industry. Is it just the Explore, Build priority pair? Is it his Police and Support ratings from his agenda? Part of it is his free Perimeter Defenses, since he'll never get conquered early by another AI (unlike poor Morgan, heh.) What causes that AI, and only that AI, to pack the bases so close together? Like ICS for humans, it works quite well (until Quantum PBs, heh heh.)

Has anyone tried giving all the AIs the Fanatic attack bonus? Maybe that makes them more likely to attack with their needlejets instead of wandering around endlessly...

[Avenoct]

It can't just be the +growth and +industry. Is it just the Explore, Build priority pair?

Yes, it is! Explore roughly equals CP's and territory claiming, while build = facilities. Once Yang gets his Rec Tanks and Rec Commons, he goes bannanas, and in about 1/8 games (probably the random faction-strategy you can access in the SE), he fully ICS's. As to terraforming, I don't find him any better than the Morganites, Gaians, or PK's.

-Smack

[T-hawk]

Actually, I goofed -- Yang's priority in HIVE.TXT is Build and Conquer. Not Explore. Which is what he does -- build lots of infrastructure and then tons of military.

What I can't figure out is what makes him still build lots of colony pods, and put them so close together. Morgan's priority is Build, and he doesn't make loads of pods. Miriam and Santiago have Explore/Conquer and Discover/Conquer, and neither of them run ICS like Yang. And all of them never have as much terraforming as Yang usually does.

I'm not sure what the free Perimeter Defense does. Since the AI usually builds them for almost all bases, that's 50 minerals that he can apply towards improvements or formers or pods. But he's also just as likely to build his ninth and tenth Silksteel Sentinels.

[Blake]

I suspect Yangs behaivour is hardcoded by faction-slot, I've taken away his bonuses and he still ICS's. (other factions also have hard-coded behaivour, Cha Dawn from SMAX starts 6 years later than the others)

However other AI's can be encouraged to do the same by setting some priorities in the Scenerio Editor, like "build lots of CP's", "Build lots of formers" etc, etc

[Avenoct]

I'd wondered if they were hard-coded! The Smax information does confirm it. Thanks Blake.

[Cybergod]

Hmm... Interesting stuff on this thread! Keep up with the reports! - How's it going?

I was wondering, as you know I have been boasting about my up-coming mod, almost finished the version 1 (version is going to be the result of public beta testing which will be done right after version 1 is released), but I wanna ask you somethin'...

Is it really neccessary to have super-AI factions? If so, I can't implement those in my mod , since I already used up the free slots with every faction have a special unit(s), facilities, etc. at start and I can't put things like "TECHCOST, 50" or whatever. What do YOU think I should do?

[Avenoct]

I suspect that for 90% of players, superfactions are not necessary for a mod because the major enjoyment will come from the newness of the whole thing, relearning a tech-tree or other mechanics, so I wouldn't sweat it. Looking back at Aldebaran I think I made the right choice to use super-factions because I wanted to make an improvement to Smac in general while simultaneously adding some goofiness and variety to gameplay. But when making a mod, it's pretty tough to make the game harder AND broaden the game experience at the same time. I'd probably go with highly customized scenarios in the future simply because some folks are intimidated by using super-factions in the first place. Rule #1 of software design: Make it so damn easy that a monkey could use it.

-S-

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by Avenoct
Rule #1 of software design: Make it so damn easy that a monkey could use it.

You mean the KISS rule:

Keep It Simple Stupid! Smiley, to be polite

BTW, I just play the "normal" Aldebaron, without the superfactions.

[Cybergod]

Erm... did I just kill your thread?