monkey sweats on tuesday (and SNAC)

[Avenoct]

So I went into the alphatext again and verified Velociryx's suspiscion that one cannot modify SP's (or techs in any way oops! corrected below!). Am I incorrect in that? I even went so far as to open the main game app with a hex editor to look around for the SP's and try to deem whether it would be possible to alter them there. Heh, I knew I was going into deep waters, and of course found nothing of use. BUT I thought I'd report the three humorous things I did find:

1. There's a line 'monkey sweats on tuesday'

2. Someone is called 'Fungboy'

3. Artillery is called Arty, just like in the shorthand used on the threads!

Ok, ok, I've lost it, but here's the real topic for this thread:


'What's editable and what's not?'


To this end I'd really appreciate it if someone tracked down/posted the SNAC mod and/or contacted it's creator. Also I want to apologize in advance..I'm going to be posting here like a madman to get the faction spreadsheet done, and also my first mod. I like to think 'outloud'.

Lurking Firaxians! I know you are out there watching us! I just recieved a Big Brother faction and you're all in it! If any of YOU want to help along with the mods/variants you could maybe tell us how you edit the techs and SP's and whatnot. It's a longshot, but who knows, maybe you Brian, or you Sid might happen along and realize that you were brilliant in your addition of the .txt files, enough so that you might encourage along some player variants of other game parameters?

Whoa, that's a rant. Maybe I'd better get out of HexEdit.

Happy Crawlering,

Smack

[Cybergod]

As far as I am concerned, you can edit EVERYTHING! Only thing is facilities (where you can't edit what they do and when you make a new one, the only thing it can do is make energy from negative maintendance), and SPs which you can't modify what they do or make new ones. But you can mess around and change their preq, faction's personality interests (an agressive faction might want the Cyborg Factory and not Empath Guild). You can also create an entirely new tech tree (I did it once, and lost it when I had a virus attack). You can also modify the armours/weapons/reactors without making new ones. Terraforms can be created but sea roads and sea mag tubes don't seem to do anything

Fungboy IS the faction txt file for the Cult of Planet in SMAX! So it seems that they were already planning to put him in while they were making SMAC!

And I have no idea where 'monkey sweats on tuesday' comes from. Maybe they gave away some 'easter egg' with the game - maybe the game is harder on tuesdays

Also Smack, did you get the factions I sent you? Do you want another two brilliant ones?

[Avenoct]

I believe I did get the factions, but I'm unable to access my email at the moment to make sure...I've gotten about 12-14 complete factons with histories so far. I'm dying to get into the Network Node, but can't..you say it uses some odd HTML? Flash you say? hrm...I'm using a primitive browser (relatively) and that's probably the problem...oh well, upgrade time!

Fungboy: Ah, I see..well I'm looking at the 1.5 version, which came out after Smax, so maybe it's not in the original, but maybe it is.

Techtree: Aye, rearranging the tech-branches is an option, too bad you can't make entirely new techs!

Well Cybergod, I'm off to upgrade and try to get to the Net Node...sure I'd love two more factions!

-Smack

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by Smack
I believe I did get the factions, but I'm unable to access my email at the moment to make sure...I've gotten about 12-14 complete factons with histories so far. I'm dying to get into the Network Node, but can't..you say it uses some odd HTML? Flash you say? hrm...I'm using a primitive browser (relatively) and that's probably the problem...oh well, upgrade time!

Fungboy: Ah, I see..well I'm looking at the 1.5 version, which came out after Smax, so maybe it's not in the original, but maybe it is.

Techtree: Aye, rearranging the tech-branches is an option, too bad you can't make entirely new techs!

Well Cybergod, I'm off to upgrade and try to get to the Net Node...sure I'd love two more factions!

-Smack

You CAN make your own techs! You just have to have your own mp3, pcx and edit the following files to put the tech in the game: alpha.txt, blurbs.txt, techshorts.txt, techlongs.txt. The same is true for the facilities except no editing of the techlongs/shorts.txt is required.

What do you mean 1.5 version? I thought that the highest patch there was WAS v4, which I have?! Give it to me now ! (only kidding )

You should be probpted to download flash automatically when you go to the NetNode. After a minute, a window pops up saying "do you want to download this?" or something...

Sending two more factions to ya soon!

[Avenoct]

Erm um, 1.5 is the latest MAC update for Smac, I dunno about PeeCees.

Well about the techs...the core of the tech is untouchable (I believe?), though by changing all the things you mention, plus some nifty ones in a thread I recently read from LONG ago about a tech to make the AI think it's high on the might charts, you can use a user-tech in the tree though it's function is incidental. Oops.

Er wait, I just got a case of the heebejeebies..what do techs do really?

1. Allow access to:

a. new weapon/armor/special ability/chassis/reactor, etc.
b. new SP
c. new facility
d. new tech

2. Restriction-lifting
a. but this can be partly defined in the alphatext as well

3. New Citizen
a. IE..Empath, Thinker, etc...

4. New SE choice

5. Secrets of AC give a free tech

6. Some techs help with fungus use.

7. What am I missing?

#1 and #2 I know how to deal with in the alphatext
#3 havn't looked yet
#4 not sure
#5 pretty sure this can be added/removed from a tech easily
#6 not sure

Ya know, I could just edit this to skip the first part, but I'm not, cause I'm blonde and well, that's life. So yes, I agree! Whooops! I was so frustrated with my SP search that I applied the same limitations to my thinking about tech. Alright, continuing to think out loud:

Can modify techs completely
Can modify units pretty much completely (see the Alexander III thread I bumped)
Can modify factions pretty much completely
Can modify world parameters in all sorts of ways

Can't change SP's a nickel
Can't change facilities in a worthwhile/complete way.

Wow, it's not so bad. I've been working hard on my Mod..I'm keeping it secret till it's ready.

Thanks Cyber,

Smack

[Avenoct]

I like my last post, but have a stipulation to add:

And this is untested, so bear with more 'speaking before you think':

Techs are inherently unchangeable. That is, you can change the blurbs and the descriptions, the order in which they appear, what other techs and chassis and whatnot need them, but what a tech does is inherent. In other words, the restricting lifting techs can't be renamed 'Lasers' and be made as simply a preq for lasers. While it will do that, it will also unrestrict it's FOP.

Question Preface: I was just rambling in Vel's post over on the Strategies Forum about his possible mod. There I was thinking about modifying the Future Techs to be 'Penalty-lifting' SE's for his harsh world idea. To do this means to take a tech, 'The Will to Power' was my example, and then look at it. Hey, it gives Thought Control and the Dream Twister. Ok, but you're going to change Thought Control to 'Penalty Lifting: +1Research' which is pretty easy to do in the alphatext.

Actual Question: What happens to the Dream Twister?

Thoughts: Well, you can change the prereqs for SP's in the Alphatext, also easily, but will it still show up? Will it still be made available, even though you've mucked about and made that project prereq'd by a different tech? Well, that's what I'm going to test now, before I jump into units..I need to know how much of a tech is core. I do believe restriction lifting is core to a particular tech #, but we'll see. Anyways, because you CAN change so much around a tech, its almost possible make a total shakedown of the techtree, which quite a few people have done (I've been looking around the net). It's like a piece of paper with a header that says 'Hi, I'm Coretech 17: I belong to restrictions' and then the rest of the page is filled up with important info. You can change the info, but not the header, it's Company paper after all..

Ok, off to answer my own questions,

Smack

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by Smack
Erm um, 1.5 is the latest MAC update for Smac, I dunno about PeeCees.

Well about the techs...the core of the tech is untouchable (I believe?), though by changing all the things you mention, plus some nifty ones in a thread I recently read from LONG ago about a tech to make the AI think it's high on the might charts, you can use a user-tech in the tree though it's function is incidental. Oops.

Er wait, I just got a case of the heebejeebies..what do techs do really?

1. Allow access to:

a. new weapon/armor/special ability/chassis/reactor, etc.
b. new SP
c. new facility
d. new tech

2. Restriction-lifting
a. but this can be partly defined in the alphatext as well

3. New Citizen
a. IE..Empath, Thinker, etc...

4. New SE choice

5. Secrets of AC give a free tech

6. Some techs help with fungus use.

7. What am I missing?

#1 and #2 I know how to deal with in the alphatext
#3 havn't looked yet
#4 not sure
#5 pretty sure this can be added/removed from a tech easily
#6 not sure

Ya know, I could just edit this to skip the first part, but I'm not, cause I'm blonde and well, that's life. So yes, I agree! Whooops! I was so frustrated with my SP search that I applied the same limitations to my thinking about tech. Alright, continuing to think out loud:

Can modify techs completely
Can modify units pretty much completely (see the Alexander III thread I bumped)
Can modify factions pretty much completely
Can modify world parameters in all sorts of ways

Can't change SP's a nickel
Can't change facilities in a worthwhile/complete way.

Wow, it's not so bad. I've been working hard on my Mod..I'm keeping it secret till it's ready.

Thanks Cyber,

Smack

Sorry, there IS NO 'core techs' as you specify. You CAN modify what tech lifts restrictions (look in the beginning of the text file under the #RULES section).

1) Yes you can easily modify those
2) Can be modified in alpha.txt
3) Yes you can modify EVEN that! All you need is a lesson on that ...

take a look at the citizens section:

; Citizens - Ethics and Specialties
;
; Singular, Plural, preq, obsolete, ops, psych, research
;
; preq = Technology prerequisite
; obsolete = Technology rendering specialty obsolete
; ops = Bonus to operations/reserves
; psych = Bonus to psych/soc
; research = Bonus to research
;

#CITIZENS
Technician, Technicians, None, Fusion, 3, 0, 0, 0000000
Doctor, Doctors, None, CentMed, 0, 2, 0, 0000000
Librarian, Librarians, PlaNets, MindMac, 0, 0, 3, 0000000
Engineer, Engineers, Fusion, Disable, 3, 0, 2, 0000000
Empath, Empathi, CentMed, AlphCen, 2, 2, 0, 0000000
Thinker, Thinkers, MindMac, AlphCen, 0, 1, 3, 0000000
Transcend, Transcendi, AlphCen, Disable, 2, 2, 4, 0000000
Drone, Drones,
Worker, Workers,
Talent, Talents,

The first short tech name tells you when they become available. The second tech name tells you when they disapear! It's as simple as that except when you forget to put when they disapear while you are modifying the text file (it happened to me, I got Centauri meditation and I set to get Biotechs (same as Empaths) when you get Bioengineering! I had a tough time punching throught the drone sculls with the nerve-staple gun and sanctions). The three numbers are as follows: bonuses in economy, psych and research points at that base. Have you seen the Star Wars mod? They modifyed completely the alpha.txt file and made drones disapear when you discover Transcent Thought!

4) Easy peasy, just modify the #SOCIO section! Change the preq tech by putting the short tech name in the correct place. You can even add additional drones and talents by adding a +/- TALENT in the effects of the SE. I don't think that you can add more than 4 of the modifications to a project and I don't think that you can add any new ones to the original 16 (someone prove me wrong please, I need new choices for my mod).

5) You know those little 0s at the end of the tech 'name'? Well, replace the last zero with a 1 on desired tech and that tech will becoma a secret and whoever discovers it first will get a free tech!

6) Same as above but different 0s are involved AND you can modify some of those things in the #RULES section.


Smack I don't understand what you were trying to do with the Will to Power? Was you trying to rename the tech? Por favor explain!

Phew! I haven't writen this much since the "What do you want in SMAC2" thread! Smacl, I hope this resolved some of your pains...

[Avenoct]

Cybergod, I almost have to apologize for posting my questions, the answers were right there! All I had to do was look. I admit, I got hung up on the Restrictions one for some reason...it just seemed 'Core'. Before you posted your reply I went in and tested these things to find out, and lo and behold, you're right! Wowies! So, sorry I didn't just post the answers to save you the time, but your explanation of how to change things should help along those of us new to mods, and I'm sure will be appreciated by all!

By the way, Tokamak and I were talking about the current lack of a Mods guide. A How-To for mod makers. Do you know where the old ones live? I couldn't track them down.

As to the Will to Power, check Vel's mod thread in the strategy forum...is where I made an SE proposal for his mod. Oh, I read somewhere about a month ago that you can't increase the number of SE choices as they display funny...but you could retest I suppose

Thanks again Cybergod,

Smack

[Avenoct]

Hey, Red Sperm Head has an appendage: I need a whole new smiley named after me called either 'oh Sh**!' or 'Doh!'. I think it would look like but have a hand smacking it's head. SNAC lives on Apolyton...in the downloads for mods...so does the Hydropatch of Alexander. Well, I was SURE that the downloads section was (still) broken, so I didn't check there. Problem solved. Smack earns more blonde points (I am blonde, so allowed to do this).

Going to play with them now.

-Smack