Anyone interested in helping with an Avatar mod?

[dgh64]

So I was watching Avatar for the jillionty-seventh time the other day, and I realized Pandora is in the Alpha Centauri system. That got me thinking... and I came up with the following idea for a mod:

It would include one or more custom-made maps, which are pretty much all land except for some rivers (1 square wide) and small lakes (no more than 3 or 4 squares across) and pretty much all forested (fungus and native life are disabled).

There are 2 players: Humans and Na'vi

Humans have superior technology (stronger armor and more powerful weapons, I'll come up with actual numbers later) but they have a terribly slow growth rate (people have to be brought on the ship from Earth) and they have to clear the forest and terraform to get resources. Na'vi suffer from weaker weapons and armor, but they have fast growth and they can get all the resources they need from the forest itself and don't need Formers at all.

Research, Diplomacy, and possibly Social Engineering would be disabled, so it would pretty much be a "build an army and fight" mod. If possible, I'd like to have some different graphics for the Na'vi Direhorses and Banshees. That's the part I'd need help with, as I have no idea if it even can be done.

Anyway, what do you all think? Is this worth pursuing?

[vyeh]

Hi, dgh64!

It is good to see you again.

So I was watching Avatar for the jillionty-seventh time the other day, and I realized Pandora is in the Alpha Centauri system.

I just saw Avatar.

That got me thinking... and I came up with the following idea for a mod:

It would include one or more custom-made maps, which are pretty much all land except for some rivers (1 square wide) and small lakes (no more than 3 or 4 squares across) and pretty much all forested (fungus and native life are disabled).

Are you aware that there are rivers that are part of the game? You seem to be talking about lakes that are 1 square across.

There are 2 players: Humans and Na'vi

Humans have superior technology (stronger armor and more powerful weapons, I'll come up with actual numbers later) but they have a terribly slow growth rate (people have to be brought on the ship from Earth) and they have to clear the forest and terraform to get resources. Na'vi suffer from weaker weapons and armor, but they have fast growth and they can get all the resources they need from the forest itself and don't need Formers at all.

It sounds like you could use the fungus mechanism. If the humans were a conventional faction, the fungus would be useless to them. If the Na'vi have factional fungus nutrient, mineral and energy bonuses, then they can use the fungus.

Research, Diplomacy, and possibly Social Engineering would be disabled, so it would pretty much be a "build an army and fight" mod. If possible, I'd like to have some different graphics for the Na'vi Direhorses and Banshees. That's the part I'd need help with, as I have no idea if it even can be done.

I am going to have to refer you to a different forum for graphics. Skunkworks: The Modding Guild is a forum for modders at WePlayCiv Forums.

After you register, start a new thread. I would recommend "Avatar mod." Tell everybody that you posted here and that you spoke to me. In particular, you should ask chuft (he has been working on the Lazytown mod) and Buster's Uncle (a whiz at graphics) for assistance. They are very friendly. There may be other artists there but I am not as familiar with their work.

It can be done. Take a look at the Lazytown mod.

Anyway, what do you all think? Is this worth pursuing?

A mod is a lot of work. I think it would be interesting. You should also look at a couple of reference works at my site (see my signature): The Scenario Editor, particularly Part I - Building a Map, and Alpha(x).txt editing. While you are at my site, you should register, download the patch and start a thread outlining what you are trying to accomplish. There may be people there that do not visit the Skunkworks forum that can offer an opinion about your project.

While I am sending you on a grand tour, you should go to Civilization Fanatics' Forums, register and post. While they don't do much with SMAC mods, they have a huge Civ mod community and maybe one of them will see your post. Again, be sure to tell them you posted here.

If you are interested in pursuing it (and the satisfaction can be worth the time and effort), then you will need other people (to provide feedback) and I suggest you post in all four SMAC forums.

Good luck.

vyeh

[dgh64]

Thanks for all the information!

I spent last night fiddling around with alphax.txt and tweaked a couple of factions (I'm using the Gaian graphics for Na'vi because their bases look like trees, and the Spartans for humans).

I like the idea of using fungus resource bonuses, but the only problem is how it looks. Is there an easy way to replace the fungus graphic with the forest graphic?

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll go check out those other sites after work.

[vyeh]

Thanks for all the information!

You're welcome.

I spent last night fiddling around with alphax.txt and tweaked a couple of factions (I'm using the Gaian graphics for Na'vi because their bases look like trees, and the Spartans for humans).

I like the idea of using fungus resource bonuses, but the only problem is how it looks. Is there an easy way to replace the fungus graphic with the forest graphic?

I imagine it is a matter of finding the fungus graphic and replacing it with the forest graphic.

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll go check out those other sites after work.

Let me know how it goes.

[dgh64]

I just posted at Skunkworks.

I played around with alphax.txt last night, and here's what I have so far:

HUMANS:
Base square produces 4N. No resources from forests, but they have access to formers and can mine, solar, farm, road, sensor, and borehole. Get 1 free former at starting base.

Chassis:
Mech suit (infantry), 2 moves
Scorpion gunship (helicopter), 16 moves, 1 turn fuel
Dragon gunship (grav ship), 8 moves, 8 turns fuel, 16 transport slots

Weapons:
Knife (hand weapons), 1 damage
Rifle, 2 damage
Gatling Gun, 5 damage
Rocket Launcher, 6 damage

Armor:
Synthmetal, 4 defense

Special:
Nerve gas, Fuel Nanocells

NA'VI:
Couldn't figure out how to switch the forest/fungus graphics, so instead I gave them a free tree farm and hybrid forest, so for them forests produce 2N 1E. Also gave them a recycling tank which gives 8M 4E, in addition to the base square's normal 4N production. I know 8M is a lot, but that's their only source of minerals unless I can figure out the fungus thing.

Chassis:
Direhorse (Speeder at the moment), 3 moves
Banshee (Needlejet at the moment), 12 moves, infinite fuel

Weapons:
Knife (hand weapons), 1 damage
Hunting Bow, 4 damage

Armor:
Silksteel, 2 defense (I like it because it's blue)

Special:
Cloaking device (needs to be renamed)

Note that the Na'vi have no transports, so this pretty much requires the map to be all one big landmass. This will give a slight advantage to the humans, because they can fly units directly instead of having to go around water.

Oh, and yes, I know there are already rivers in the game that give you 1 energy, I'm talking about something sort of like near Planet Neck, where there's a long, thin body of water and it forces you to go around.

[vyeh]

I played around with alphax.txt last night, and here's what I have so far:

HUMANS:
Base square produces 4N.

No minerals? No energy?

No resources from forests, but they have access to formers and can mine, solar, farm, road, sensor, and borehole. Get 1 free former at starting base.

If you are using fungus mechanism, the formers will have to clear the forests first.

Chassis:
Mech suit (infantry), 2 moves
Scorpion gunship (helicopter), 16 moves, 1 turn fuel

So helicopters cannot land outside base? Are you allowing the formers to build air fields?

Dragon gunship (grav ship), 8 moves, 8 turns fuel, 16 transport slots

So you modified chassis to give them 8 turns of fuel. Why did you go with 8 turns?

Weapons:
Knife (hand weapons), 1 damage
Rifle, 2 damage
Gatling Gun, 5 damage
Rocket Launcher, 6 damage

I assume you are talking about attack strength.

Armor:
Synthmetal, 4 defense

Special:
Nerve gas, Fuel Nanocells

Since you aren't allowing tech research, they get all this at the start.

NA'VI:
Couldn't figure out how to switch the forest/fungus graphics, so instead I gave them a free tree farm and hybrid forest, so for them forests produce 2N 1E. Also gave them a recycling tank which gives 8M 4E, in addition to the base square's normal 4N production. I know 8M is a lot, but that's their only source of minerals unless I can figure out the fungus thing.

Ask Buster's Uncle.

Chassis:
Direhorse (Speeder at the moment), 3 moves
Banshee (Needlejet at the moment), 12 moves, infinite fuel

Weapons:
Knife (hand weapons), 1 damage
Hunting Bow, 4 damage

Armor:
Silksteel, 2 defense (I like it because it's blue)

Special:
Cloaking device (needs to be renamed)

OK.

Note that the Na'vi have no transports, so this pretty much requires the map to be all one big landmass. This will give a slight advantage to the humans, because they can fly units directly instead of having to go around water.

Oh, and yes, I know there are already rivers in the game that give you 1 energy, I'm talking about something sort of like near Planet Neck, where there's a long, thin body of water and it forces you to go around.

I don't understand the reference to Planet Neck.

[dgh64]

No minerals? No energy?

Nope. Na'vi have the large production from recycling tanks, but humans have to mine/solar. That's why they get a free Former. I'm also going to set the starting energy to something like 300 so you can rush-build a couple units while you wait for your mines to get up and running.

If you are using fungus mechanism, the formers will have to clear the forests first.

That's correct. If I do end up using the fungus mechanism, then I'll give the humans free fungicide.

So helicopters cannot land outside base? Are you allowing the formers to build air fields?

Yes, helicopters can land (we saw this in the movie), and formers can build airfields to extend their range without taking damage.

So you modified chassis to give them 8 turns of fuel. Why did you go with 8 turns?

I don't know why 8... I kinda wanted to be able to loiter for a few turns before going home, but I didn't want infinite fuel. Do you think it should be different?

I assume you are talking about attack strength.

Yeah, attack strength.

Since you aren't allowing tech research, they get all this at the start.

I'm still considering allowing tech. I think maybe a very basic A leads to B leads to C thing, in which each side has their own 2 or 3 techs. So maybe you'd get heavier armor first, and then nerve gas? There might also be a branch or two with base enhancement or something, but I'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

I don't understand the reference to Planet Neck.

Maybe I got the name wrong. On Huge Map of Planet, the big Eastern continent has a channel that starts at the South end and cuts the continent almost in half. I was using that as an example of what I meant when I said "river" earlier. I thought Planet Neck was the little strip of land that went across the mouth of the channel.

Anyway, some more progress to report:

I just found out I can use #UNITS in alphax.txt to make things you can't do with the design workshop -- in particular, it's possible to make a combat unit with a powerful weapon that also has transport ability. I'm thinking of making a Dragon (massive gunship) with Gatling gun that also transports 16, and disabling it, but giving the human player one of them to start with. What do you think?

[vyeh]

Yes, helicopters can land (we saw this in the movie), and formers can build airfields to extend their range without taking damage.

So helicopters will take normal 30% damage if they end turn outside base or air field?

I don't know why 8... I kinda wanted to be able to loiter for a few turns before going home, but I didn't want infinite fuel. Do you think it should be different?

The other side has infinite fuel. Will you be using two different chassis?

I'm still considering allowing tech. I think maybe a very basic A leads to B leads to C thing, in which each side has their own 2 or 3 techs. So maybe you'd get heavier armor first, and then nerve gas? There might also be a branch or two with base enhancement or something, but I'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

OK.

Maybe I got the name wrong. On Huge Map of Planet, the big Eastern continent has a channel that starts at the South end and cuts the continent almost in half. I was using that as an example of what I meant when I said "river" earlier. I thought Planet Neck was the little strip of land that went across the mouth of the channel.

I understand now.

Yes, helicopters can land (we saw this in the movie), and formers can build airfields to extend their range without taking damage.

So helicopters will take normal 30% damage if they end turn outside base or air field?

I don't know why 8... I kinda wanted to be able to loiter for a few turns before going home, but I didn't want infinite fuel. Do you think it should be different?

The other side has infinite fuel. Will you be using two different chassis?

I'm still considering allowing tech. I think maybe a very basic A leads to B leads to C thing, in which each side has their own 2 or 3 techs. So maybe you'd get heavier armor first, and then nerve gas? There might also be a branch or two with base enhancement or something, but I'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

OK.

Anyway, some more progress to report:

I just found out I can use #UNITS in alphax.txt to make things you can't do with the design workshop -- in particular, it's possible to make a combat unit with a powerful weapon that also has transport ability. I'm thinking of making a Dragon (massive gunship) with Gatling gun that also transports 16, and disabling it, but giving the human player one of them to start with. What do you think?

Yes, you can. I think that will work well.

[dgh64]

So helicopters will take normal 30% damage if they end turn outside base or air field?

I guess... unless there's a way to change it? It'd be nice if it was only 10%

The other side has infinite fuel. Will you be using two different chassis?

Yes, 2 chassis: Helicopter for the Scorpion, and Grav Ship (with limited fuel added) for the Dragon.

The Na'vi are riding animals, which can stop and eat wherever they are, so I figure it's like every square is an airbase.

[vyeh]

I guess... unless there's a way to change it? It'd be nice if it was only 10%

I assume you have looked through the rules at the beginning of alphax.txt. Off the top of my head, I don't think so.

The Na'vi are riding animals, which can stop and eat wherever they are, so I figure it's like every square is an airbase.

Right.

How did the graphics Buster's Uncle give you work out?

[dgh64]

I haven't had time to try them yet, but I'll let you know after work.

[vyeh]

How about the other tribes. From my one viewing, there were Na'vi on the coast, the plains. You can create other Na'vi factions with some tweaks on the one you have. Then the human will face the hordes!

[dgh64]

That's a pretty good idea. Although, I'd probably have to throttle back the growth quite a bit, becuase with the small amount of play-testing I've done a single AI-controlled Na'vi is pretty hard to beat.

I'm about to go plug in Buster's Uncle's modded fungus graphics, rewrite alphax.txt, and see how it works. I'll get back to you in a few hours...

[dgh64]

I had some trouble with the fungus graphics, but I spent the last 2 hours working with alphax.txt and my faction files anyway. Here's the new system:

Base Square gives 2/1/1
Recycling Tanks (which Na'vi get free but humans can't have) gives an additional 0/1/1

Na'vi get 1/1/1 from fungus, and have 4 levels of technology to increase it to 2/2/2, then 3/3/3, and so on to a max of 5/5/5

Humans get nothing from fungus, instead they have to use the more traditional terraforming. I changed the fungus coefficient in #WORLDBUILDER to 4, so with native life set to Abundant you get mostly fungus but a few non-fungus squares here and there, so humans will (most likely) have a square or two of no fungus to start with. Humans also can build roads through fungus by default.

As it is right now, each side has 5 techs:

Na'vi have the 4 fungus resource techs, plus one that branches off from #2 and allows the Flux Vortex special ability (a.k.a. cloaking device) for stealth.

Humans have 2 combat system techs, which unlock the heavier weapons (Gatling Gun, Rocket Launcher, and the Dragon chassis) as well as the perimeter defense and tachyon field (renamed Basic and Advanced Defense Grids), and 2 power generator techs, which let you build generators to feed the large power requirements of the defense grids. The grids use 8 and 12 energy respectively, and the generators produce 10 and 15 respectively, so a base with all 4 buildings will have a surplus of 5. The final human tech is Advanced Chemistry, which requires both Power 1 and Combat 1. It unlocks Fungicide, fuel nanocells, and Nerve Gas, which is very important given the Na'vi growth advantage.

[dgh64]

This is coming along pretty well, and I'm looking at tomorrow for a beta release. I have a couple technical questions, though:

You know the Scout Patrol you get at the beginning? Is there a way to change that to a different pre-designed unit? Because right now it's giving AMP Suits to the Na'vi. I've looked through the Spartan faction file to see what makes them get a Rover instead, but couldn't find anything.

Also, my pre-designed Dragon Assault Transport won't hold onto its units. I move a land unit to the same square and click "Board Transport", and on the transport's screen the cargo number goes up by 1, but when I move the transport all the units stay behind.