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**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 19, 2009, 13:28

Originally posted by Maniac

I think your changes don't make her look better or worse, just different. Don't fix what ain't broken, I'd say.

[He's talking about the Empath.]

Good enough reason for me. My whole purpose was to be more different from the alteration I’d just done of the identical Unicom portrait, (which I should have flipped instead) with a side order of make her even prettier if could without touching her face. I think I succeeded a little- the hairline of the original wasn’t her best feature.

If the leader looking alike with an obscure custom faction (that I think is excellent, albeit with very funky bases) doesn't bother you, I'll cope.

Yeah, i'd prefer to leave this one untouched as well.
Thanks for the Republic makeover!

[blush]

Thanks! Looks like it would be a needle in a haystack to find back the original pics these portraits were based on though.

Woulda been pretty tough even at the time. I’d say you might find it worth poking around for pictures merely similar where you have the name of the original subject, or someone who looks like them…

Are you saying Flanders is part of France?

Nossir. I was saying you could change one word in the text, and the French name and such would still fit; and that to Americans, Flanders would be a more original point of origin. Seriously, I’ve never seen a Belgian-led faction.

Anyway, the Centauri Republic is imagined around the idea of protectionism. French foreign policy is traditionally protectionist. Belgian policy has always been pro-free trade. Hence it is much more plausible the leader of this faction is of French instead of Belgian origin.

The idea of a faction is crucial. It’s huge. I withdraw the Flemish suggestion.

Personally I think the portraits of the Ghosts, Genesis and Templar are really bad. Instead of trying to fix them, I'd just give them a new portrait - even switching the gender and name is fine to me.

Okay. I’m inclined to look for non-white portraits for the rest then. Notions about that are welcome. A Latin American woman in a lab coat would be a gimme for the Genesis.

I still don’t know what faction I’ll work on when I get off the net today. I think I’ll have a look at all three pcx files first, to see what non-portrait work they need besides my standard icon tweaks. I could go ahead and do all of those non portrait changes and post, intending to change the portraits as we find candidate shots and update then. That way if the asteroid random event triggers at my house the next day, you’ll have everything else, and could do the portraits yourself if you chose.

Regarding the Time Magazine covers, they are certainly better than what the above three factions have now. But I'm not especially fond of that style of drawing. They look like comic book characters to me. I'm not a graphical artist myself, so I don't really have the vocabulary or conceptual frame of analysis to put my finger on what I don't like about it. Perhaps it's the ligne claire-style of delineating faces, and the high contrast created by and frequent use of black shadows on the face.

The first Time cover portrait I used, Soviet Marshal Zhukov for the New Spartans, had to be tweaked a little. It was one of the more realistic efforts from an artist they, lamentably, used a lot, who liked to paint distorted portraits with caved-in-looking foreheads and invented wrinkles and such.

Zhukov had some of that, which I had to retouch. I also selected a lot of the shadows on the figure that were too black and that made him look drawn, and made them dark brown instead. I doubt anyone noticed the difference, but it helped the realism a lot. My PhotoShop-fu has gotten stronger in the interim, too.

Why don’t you have another look, also at that painter’s site, and see if you see anything that strikes your fancy and is in the ballpark for realism, and point me at them. I recommend holding out for ethnic persons- and further observe that your faction set is light on men, which should make it easier to find something on a Time cover.

I like the style used for that think tanker much better. Looks immediately ready to me to use as the Templar leader. Well, I guess better only use part of the picture, so his watch doesn't show.

I can/will get rid of the watch, (which hadn’t registered on me.) so we can crop however we like- I think he looks better with the baggy lower part of his coat cropped out. But the crossed arms are dynamite for the hostile nature of the faction.

Darsnan likes him for his proposed PsiCorp faction, too, and neither he nor vyeh have responded to my notion of merging it with the Strategist last I checked. I think you declared for the painting first, but even though I like to make all my faction graphics unique to maximize flexibility of use, the Strategist was supposed to have a different background from the beginning, and there are other minor things I can do to customize him a little. For once I’d like suggestions for time-consuming changes you’d fancy, ‘cause it’s probably less work than two entirely different portraits. And we’re not going to top this one; we have to use it.

Another picture I like is this one:

Looks rather young for a faction leader (reason why I prefer the untouched Elevea), but it could make sense for the Empaths or Genesis. With the Empaths psi potential could be more important than age. As for the Genesis, their leaders could actually be rather old - you just wouldn't notice because of the frequent rejuvenation tank visits.

I haven’t clicked on the link yet, but the thumbnail looks fine. I may tweak to enhance the paleness, and look into darkening her hair color to better pass as a genetically-altered Argentinean.

IMHO, maybe increases the pressure to go non-white for the remainder, though. One of the things I immediately liked about N*matt’s portrait was his ethnic look.

That would leave one new portrait required for the Ghosts. No idea for this one yet. Keywords are hackers, sneaky and aggressive.

So. Lorenzo Lamas with a Borg eyepiece and scars was fine, except (inconstantly) too photographic, and recognizable? That’s what I think. The portrait says bad neighbor nicely and in the right amount, I believe, where my secondary objection to the Genesis and Templar portraits was that I didn’t want to be in the same universe with such creepy, evil-looking people. They’re really over the top in saying Bad Guy visually.

For this one my inclination is to not replace, but tackle retouching him. I can process the portrait to make it less photographic, alter his features (gently) to make him not a d-list celebrity, and make him brown to suggest Polynesian ethnicity- the latter being perfect for an aquatic faction.

I’ll save him for last, though, in case you point me at a painting/photo you like better. (Making a painting more realistic is usually less work than making a photo look AC-level realistic, and not like a photograph.)

I see that I can go straight to the portrait for the Templars and not fuss around with logos and bases first. On reflection, I think I’ll do a quick watch-removal, resizing and cropping to datalinks-portrait proportions and post for your opinion.

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 19, 2009, 15:00

I began at 2:41. Killing the watch dead, dead, dead took under five minutes, and I was uploading the shot at 2:52. This is ready for scan lines and dropping into a faction as-is now.

I am great.

This one's up for grabs or will need some customizing to make me happy about using him in 2-3 factions.

He must feel like the prettiest girl at the ball right now...

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 19, 2009, 18:21

Originally posted by Maniac

Aren't Argentinians white?

From wikipedia:

Anyway, I hadn't considered yet the whole SMAniaC set was white. I was just picking whatever leader portraits from the Network Node seemed the best quality. And I just made Johanna Chaue Argentinian because SMAC didn't have any South American leader yet. That can always be changed.

I don't know much about Argentina. Here in the states, persons of Spanish/native ethnic mix, even fairly pale ones, are considered/self-identify as not, or more accurately, not-quite white.

I understand that pretty universally in Central and South America, people lie and claim a great deal more European blood than they have. I believe if you check Wikipeda’s phrasing, it doesn’t actually contradict me. But I cannot claim any knowledge of the actual ethnic spread.

I guess the Clint Eastwood-look was the fashion back then.
(Yeah I know that doesn't make any sense

)

He got pretty wrinkled and craggy a long time ago, didn’t he?

Nothing which screams out "Wow, perfect fit!" I'm afraid. I like your Hubble though. Zhukov second place, and Haj third place.

Thanks.
Hubble was the least work of the set- about a half-hour. I just altered the little bit of shirt, suit and tie showing. the portrait was just born almost perfect. Zhukov ate up a few hours. Haj was easy; (altered his clothing- collar/tie/colors- and added tiny flourishes to his mustache,) until I got some helpful suggestions about his hat and background. Tht took longer.

Note that you rate them in inverse to my effort. [with a wry smile, shakes head a little sadly]

They're almost all white males, no? I noticed Mrs. Chiang Kai-Shek. Her skin looks more bland than in the SMAC vanilla portraits though.
With Mister Think Tank, Miss Eugenetics and a reworking of the current Ghost leader, is there a need for additional portraits though? (well, except for Planetfall if you're interested in that?)

I am. Wish I had Beyond the Sword, but my computer doesn’t get along with CIV 4 satisfactorily anyway and I haven’t made anything for my own use in over a month, besides. Got a lot of AC eggs juggling right now, though.

You don’t want to reject anything because of skin tone. Look at the Cyborg Intellect leader- I made Maarifa a dark African from an opera singer, Marian Anderson, so light-skinned I don’t know if she was Black or Latino. Skin tone isn’t as easy to do as you’d think, but not a big deal.

I already turned Mrs. Kai-Shek’s brother into Kyong Shin of the alt. Hive-Protectorate, BTW. That intense young guy started as a smiling old-ish guy. (The anatomy of his cheeks-jawline is a little borked because he desperately tried to look Japanese- most gamers would never know the difference- but I would, and I wasn’t having that.) I imagine that’s why you didn’t list Shin as a favorite, even though he’s pretty great; or because you didn’t recognize the origin, a cover of Tse-veng Soong.

Anyway, I agree that we’re covered for this project. But time you spend looking at prospective leaderheads is surely not wasted.

That's intentional actually. The SMAC and SMAX leaders added together leads to a 8-6 male-female ratio. My set corrects this to 10-11, the least uneven you can get.

Another explanation is I like looking at women.

Gotcha. Why do you think I made over the factions in the order I did? Alvea only got in, frankly, because her bases kinda sucked. She’s half good-looking, but never made my cut. I’m not a big admirer of Meg Foster’s looks.

Thanks, looking great!
By the way, what do you think about removing the epaulette? While the Templar would obviously have a large military, I'm not sure the ruling body itself would be part of the military, which that epaulette could indicate.

That would be a lot easier than the watch, I think, and would customize your version a little.

However, if I was more invested in the faction or even not so very eager to differentiate multiple iterations of the N*matt portrait for different factions, I’d argue that the Templars are clearly, near-explicitly, fascists.

Your faction, though. I’ll post the change shortly after I wrap up this post.

Could I ask for a picture before you rescaled it by the way? Would be useful for when I add extra leaders to Planetfall in some far future.

Sure. Totally saved it large, uncropped, watchless, and as a .bmp. I don’t think epaulette removal twice is an issue. How? Email?

See above re the Argentina thing.
I don't think you should change the portrait though. It's made by Linda Bergkvist and available at http://www.furiae.com/
IIRC she states she doesn't have a problem with people using the pics available there for their own projects, as long as you don't alter them. Even resizing or cutting off a part of the pic may be to her disliking.

Okay, but three things:

1.) No one in the community has ever seemed to worry about things like stealing work from outside the community (and mostly inside- all usually uncredited, too), including you and I. I see this as a similar issue.
2.) She really needs, as the minimal change I’d be happy with, traces of a lab coat showing. Only Gaians are allowed to walk around naked, right?.
3.) This is crass of me, but if we edit our posts to delete/misspell her name how will the artist know?

Your call, though.

Hmm, I thought he was white. :hmm: What ethnicity is he?

Dunno. To my eye he's faintly ethnic, and-

Instead of speculating, I googled his last name. He’s Salameh B. N*matt. Clearly, the first name is Arabic, which doesn’t actually pin him down much ethnically, but he looks Middle Eastern to me. Based on the last name and his completion, I’d been about to guess something like Austrian or Yugoslavian, with a fair amount of Turkish blood. That still can’t be ruled out, either. Would you say N*matt sounds Hungarian, maybe?

Ah. Realized I hadn’t googled his full name. He’s Jordanian, and all the references I see say journalist. Dunno-reporters don’t put on uniforms to pose for paintings. I’m sure it’s him. May have been at a different place in his life back then?

For future reference and to cut down on confusion about the definition of white, I’m using the fairly exclusive one mostly used throughout North America, less out of racism, I think (and hope), than proud members of ethnic groups self-identifying as something different than the majority, and therefore special. Lots of Caucasians get excluded, the defining characteristic usually being that they’re at least slightly browner than, say, the average Greek.

I had never heard of Lorenzo Lamas before. Or at least instantly forgotten about him.

Falcon Crest. Son of actor Fernando Lamas- the guy Billy Crystal used to imitate on Saturday Night live, if you’ve seen episodes from the mid-eighties, and even if you haven’t- Ester Williams’ step-son. Star of the basic cable show Renegade from, oh, 10-15 years back. Tends to star in a lot of low-rent stuff when he manages to star in anything anymore. He’s the sort of actor they’d probably hire for an AC movie.

My problems with the portrait are:

1) What's that weird stuff running over the left side of his face? Looks like some parasite tendril crawling down from his head. I'd prefer to see it removed.

I always assumed it was a ham-handed attempt at a scar.

2) He doesn't seem to be wearing any clothes. (Look at the shoulder) Only Gaians are allowed to walk around naked.
3) I'm not sure what the background is supposed to be, but it appears to be outdoors. Outdoors is a strange place to contact another faction leader.

If those issues were addressed, the portrait would be fine for me.

If a non-white leader is preferred, I'd say they should be East Asian or Indian. Judging from their current population percentage, and assumed economic weight in a couple decades, they should have a larger presence on the Unity.

A while ago, before you suggested retouching the existing Ghost dude, I googled 'dark hairstyle'. Just suggesting for the record as an alternative, perhaps the following would look well with the background changed to some green Matrix code on the background:

Screw Lorenzo Lamas and non-white. I wanna spend my time looking at her, given the choice. I have to spend a LOT of time looking at some of these portraits as I work on them.

-I could make her complexion darker.

That's the spirit!

I try. I’d hoped the statement would be taken in the light spirit it was offered. Finding the right balance between arrogance and false humility in my conduct is tricky- and I’m a nerd, so it’s extra tricky, being a social thing.

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 19, 2009, 21:46

Took longer to upload it and write this post than ditch the epaulette.

**vyeh** · April 20, 2009, 02:06

I'm curious about something. When I start a game, I can pick the gender of my faction. Are there two leaderheads per faction to account for different genders?

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 20, 2009, 08:13

Originally posted by vyeh View Post

I'm curious about something. When I start a game, I can pick the gender of my faction. Are there two leaderheads per faction to account for different genders?

No, and no way to do it. Wouldn't it be great to have that option?

You need to link these two posts for scient's consideration for his down-the=road=when-he-gets-beyond-bugs list. (I don't know how to link individual posts, or I'd be doing it now.)

**vyeh** · April 20, 2009, 08:21

Hit the post# in the upper right corner, you will get a single post. Then you can paste the URL. (Or after you get the single post, you can hit the name of the thread in the upper right corner of the single post and it will display the thread beginning at the post you're interested in)

**Hydro** · April 21, 2009, 20:00

Hi Buster’s Uncle!

Glad you and Maniac are teaming up! My thoughts, including a few images I found:

Bree – good. No clothes, though! You’ll ruin the ambiance.

Republic – looks good. Kind of snooty.

Ghosts – I liked the ominous bald head and the blood veins (??). Kind of scary. But, a new image would be OK.

Templar – I like the flames in the back, but the picture can change.

404 - Not Found

http://www.pengal.com/jpg/iluj0517.jpg

Peninsula Gallery is the best visionary long history fine art gallery representing best top quality beautiful west coast artists such as robert bateman, carol evans, mark heine, philip buytendorp, ray ward, jerry markham, rare contemporary sculpture by carol gold, unique first nation art by jeremy humperville, art furniture by don bastian. The fine art gallery is in Sidney of Greater Victoria on Vancouver Island. Peninsula Gallery also provides a variety of art services including custom framing, art appraisal, online art consignment for sale, printing service, art hanging and installation, art classes, art packaging, art restoration and conservation, residential art consulting and corporate art consulting and art gifting.

Genesis – terrible picture. I like the idea of a scientist-in-a-lab-coat, but not too much. Perhaps a hint of science?

Bonsai Tree

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/82485942/Stockbyte

Bonsai Tree

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/82485943/Stockbyte

Bonsai Tree

Atlantians – could be redone. I like the blue hair

403 Forbidden

https://www.newsweek.com/id/57224

Empaths – kind of blah.

I don’t think it is good to have all the factions be pretty. It is more important for them to a have character that demonstrates an aspect of their faction.

Hydro

P.S. I can look at the nifty Time magazine covers that there was a link to. But I can't find it now...

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 21, 2009, 20:54

The link's in the "GOLD MINE!" thread. It that what you needed?

You might want to check the parallel SMAniaC thread at CFC- Maniac is posting there, and I've gotten behind on the duping.

About to post a link to net research info in Strategist thread.

Having busy evening- in a hurry.

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 21, 2009, 23:04

I've sent you those things I promised.

Originally posted by Maniac

Argentina is kinda different than the rest of South- and Central-America though.
1) It had no empire with a large native population, as in Mexico or the Andes.
2) There were no large slave imports AFAIK.
3) Argentina has a temperate climate, which attracted plenty of European immigrants (similar to South Africa, Australia and of course the US)

Ah. There was an influx of Germans in the 40’s, I’ve heard, and Blue Meanies in the sixties. I don’t know how demographically significant either group was, though you’d think both would turn up during coups and make the international news, so maybe not billions of either. And Eva Peron was pretty pale, but then she was born in Brazil, wasn’t she?

I think you’ll grant that I’m not that ignorant for a North American, though. I actually know and remember that Central and South Americans hate when we call ourselves “Americans”, so my tacking of the “North” on the front isn’t to include Canada.

I half want to argue to move the Genesis leader away from Argentina, then, and half just to use what we’ve got. I’ll do the Templars first, though, in case you rethink.

Crap. I guess that means you'd never be interested in turning the empath specialist icon into something that looks well in 56x56 size?

Sure, I’ll take a run at it. I’m getting so I don’t even loathe Photoshop anymore. Much.

Yes, true. I'm not 100% convinced myself removing the epaulette is a good idea.

The Templar are a psi faction though. I assume the ruling elite would just like to control everything from above, and see their military as a tool, not something they want to be part of themselves.

Good enough for me.

Ah, good point, I agree.
Could I also have a not-resized pic of her with the labcoat? I just had the thought, she might be able to pass as a younger version of Aki Zeta-5, before cyborgification. I could use that pic as a University leader (Aki Luttinen) in Planetfall, and let the pic switch if the University converts to the Consciousness. (The Consciousness is a 'religion', not a faction, in Planetfall)

Sure, when I’ve done it. Shall we edit Linda’s last name out of our posts in case of vanity searches, then?

The first second I saw the pic, I actually thought she was Chinese.

Upon closer inspection, yeah, she's probably not. Still, let's say she's from Harbin, Manchuria. That city used to be Russian, so we could say she has some Russian blood in her. So no need for skin changes then.

I’d guess she’s maybe Japanese- northerners have pronounced cheekbones and pale skin- with heavy eye make-up to make her eyes rounder- I can undo that.

If we make them all from places that would let them look white, we’ve just moved them around, not made the line-up more multicultural. I want to darken her- otherwise the Templars are the only non-whitening we’ve done, and only two non-whites is bad enough.

Replacing albino with pale doesn’t count.

I think that uniform looks great. A reason for it might be the background though. It kinda fits well with the 'black' chess tiles. I'm not sure the brown would work with the original background.

I wasn’t offering to do the same brown. I can change the background color, too.

My first thought was to make him Egyptian - Egypt has AFAIK less civil liberties than Jordan, and of course the leader of such a faction should come from an authoritarian environment. Then it dawned upon me that a muslim would NEVER call his faction the freaking TEMPLAR. (that name is inspired from StarCraft btw, not from history)
So I'd say make him Lebanese. There're still christians there, and Lebanon happens to be the core region of the Templar (or at least some crusader states).

Excellent. Sound reasoning. I’m sold.

You mean of the body? I don't think that's a good idea. I mean, as of now already a much smaller part of the face is shown than on the other SMAC portraits.

Here’s another size/crop for your approval. Zoomed in more, but leaving the top of his crossed arms in the frame- that should address your good point, yet be different enough for me.

LOL haven't found a section on papier maché myself.
The Bergkvist pic is Blue Eyes on this page: http://www.furiae.com/gallery.php?section=ruby

Only had a quick glance so far, but some nice stuff...

I’d sent the mask link to my sister, who replied today that it made her want to put on a show with just the lovely, lovely masks. I replied that I’m game- she should write up a commentary on the nature of identity and the faces we show the world. I followed up with a suggestion that- here, I’ll quote

“...In fact, I suspect the artist would be flattered enough by being contacted by an academic interested in featuring her work that she'd provide much nicer masks than I could make, or at least grant permission to rip off her work, in return for photos and info about the production, perhaps video.

You have a cred/status someone interested in promoting herself ought to like to make use of.”

…So maybe a little good pay-back there.

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 22, 2009, 10:54

No one in the community has ever seemed to worry about things like stealing work from outside the community (and mostly inside- all usually uncredited, too), including you and I. I see this as a similar issue.

I read a fascinating doctoral dissertation on textual poaching by a colleague of my sister once that speaks to this a lot.

The Wikipedia entry on textual poaching is a load of crap, in that it only mentions Star Trek fandom -which pretty much invented and trademarked the phenomenon, and which is the primary focus of the book- once. I smell vandalism by a Star Wars nerd.

Just wanted to note that there's been serious academic attention given to the kind of thing we're doing when we use a picture off the net in making a custom faction. I guarantee that all the professors who've taken an interest are geeks like us, but still.

I could try to find a link to the dissertation I read if anyone’s interested in reading a very dry book with fascinating insights about us. My sister’s a good influence on me.

Ok. Here's the edition I read for sale on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Textual-Poache.../dp/0415905729

Full response to Hydro pending...

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 22, 2009, 17:21

Siiigh. Thank you for pitching in.

…People have GOT to start actually reading my posts, though- it’s hard to be cordial when someone comments before they read.

Hydro. Buddy. Have a quick look the four factions I’ve already worked over graphically, please. They’re all here or linked in the thread. Maniac and I would love to hear what you think.

Sorry if I’m being snotty. No good way to address that issue. …I’ve been ruder to Darsnan over the same thing.

…He tried to plead not guilty, unconvincingly. If I surmise incorrectly here, I apologize.

Originally posted by Hydro View Post

Hi Buster’s Uncle!

Hey. Uncle, BU, or Jack is fine, too.

Glad you and Maniac are teaming up!

Boy, am I, too.

My thoughts, including a few images I found:

Bree – good. No clothes, though! You’ll ruin the ambiance.

Republic – looks good. Kind of snooty.

Ghosts – I liked the ominous bald head and the blood veins (??). Kind of scary. But, a new image would be OK.

Templar – I like the flames in the back, but the picture can change.

I wasn’t paying attention and thought the Templar and Genesis leaders were dudes- that’s an unforgivable flaw.

I dislike the flames even more than the head- what are they, a devil faction? Cenobites? From Wisconsin?

http://www.pengal.com/jpg/iluj0517.jpg

I wish that was bigger. Maniac, it’s an Asian lady.

Genesis – terrible picture.

Couldn’t agree more. Fails on multiple levels. The big one for me was that, like the Templars, it’s a creepy-looking pic, and I don’t want to look at it.

I like the idea of a scientist-in-a-lab-coat, but not too much. Perhaps a hint of science?

Bonsai Tree

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/82485942/Stockbyte

Bonsai Tree

www.gettyimages.com/detail/82485943/Stockbyte

Maniac, you’ve got to have a look at those links- the first one isn’t bad at all; she’s Japanese, I think, and I could loose the watermark- ditto, or crop-out, for the plant. Only downside I see is the smile….

Atlantians – could be redone. I like the blue hair

403 Forbidden

https://www.newsweek.com/id/57224

Empaths – kind of blah.

Come to think of it, I felt the same way about the Empath portrait until I spent a lot of time looking at Oleksandra (the Ukrainan beauty queen whose photo that is) while I was working on her. She’s exquisitely beautiful, but that didn’t jump out at me while playing.

Also, it’s clearly just a photograph, the worst case of that in the set.

We should revisit this one with a black person in mind…

I don’t think it is good to have all the factions be pretty. It is more important for them to a have character that demonstrates an aspect of their faction.

I agree completely, even though I’m guilty of what you say.

***
And more of my slight response backlog out of the way:
***

Originally posted by Maniac

Let's make her [prospective Genesis leader portrait] Israelite. Jews favour eugenetics (seriously). I kinda like the irony of it.

Me too.

It would need to be 56*56 pixels.
Perhaps make the hands disappear/merge in the aura of light?
Would it also be possible to create a version in which the aura becomes more opaque near the borders? That version can be 64*64 pixels.

Easiest, I could draw in more of the hands, I think. I don’t know if I know how the opaque thing works- if you mean blurred, and pixels increasingly dropping out towards the edge, I probably could.

Nah, she's pretty famous AFAIK. We'd probably be found on page 100 of Google or something.

See my discovery about N*matt for this. Google thinks we’re pretty or something. I think you’re the only one who’s used her full name. Might better check.

I kinda regularly see Chinese people, and I'd say the biggest objection to thinking she's Chinese, is not her eyes, skin colour or facial structure, but rather that her hair is too brown.

Weeeak. A model posing for a glamour shot never dyes her hair? And I can fix that more easily than most things…

[latest version/crop for Templar] Looks good to me too. Don't really have a preference on the matter. Let's go with what you (or Hydro) want.

I'm happy enough. Hydro?

She's also pretty well-known (has a wikipedia page for instance

), so I don't think she's in need of extra promotion. Can't hurt to ask of course. Just don't mention this place.

If she’s never had her work featured/analyzed by a PhD, lending that kind of gravity to her efforts as serious creations- capital "A" ART- I don’t care if she’s Jesus Christ. She’ll be thrilled.

**Buster Crabbe's Uncle** · April 22, 2009, 23:25

I got curious about the subject of the original Empath image (whose name is here at 'poly in two places years apart, which doesn't worry me.)
I found a stillshot of her from a video that I liked enough to crop to datalinks, not least for Hydro:

-I don't see us using this, although I could fix the background,

- . . . -and she looks smokin' hot...

She's still white. There are smokin' hot black women in the world w/ images on the innerweb...

**vyeh** · April 23, 2009, 01:14

Originally posted by Buster's Uncle View Post

-I don't see us using this, although I could fix the background,

Ironwood expressed interest in an alternate faction set. Save this for an alt-Gaian. Maybe an eco-warrior. (Oops, am I threadjacking?)

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