Sister Miriam de-uglified

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I sez in the Eye of the Beholder thread yesterday, where I'm making some faction graphics for Darsnan, I sez, that I think graphically the Believers really are an unfair portrayal of people of faith.

Miriam is the least attractive of the human faction leaders, and she's up against Forman Domai, a guy with a bad scar, and some old men...

Well, I found a non-scan-lined shot of her online this morning- I pasted it into MS Paint and zoomed in to do a little copy/paste work.

I moved her chin down two pixels and thickened the middle of her upper lip one, bringing her lower lip forward in the process. I slimmed and straightened her jaw line by about two pixels. I moved the bottom edge of her eyes down a pixel, and the top up one. I moved the outer half of her brow ridge up and out a pixel. I used the same technique to sweep her bangs. I drew her some eyebrows.

(To me, the evidence is clearly right there in the picture, if you zoom in close, that someone at Firaxis used the same process to narrow her eyes! That might account for the subtle asymmetry of her face and its slight misalignment with her shirt, too.)

Voila! Not only was she better looking, but her expression had become more pleasant in the process. I used the smudge tool in Photoshop to clean up the edges of the pastes, though I'd been careful and it didn't need it much. I also messed with her hair a little more and lengthened it a smidge at the bottom. And I removed the hair lump top left.

It's not major changes; I restrained myself this time. The before shot, below left, is like she's fresh out of bed with too little sleep, and my version, below right, except for the weight loss and hair length, could be the same woman half an hour later after she's had a cup of coffee and combed her hair. I've seen women improve a lot more than that after they had time to get their crap togther in the morning...

The shot's an off size, but it wouldn't be a big deal to resize, add scan lines and drop it into the Believers’ graphic. In fact, I'll probably do it for my own use. Anybody else interested? You have to post and say so; I don't read minds.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I've added a save, above middle, from before I PhotoShopped it, just to prove you can do this in Paint in a couple of hours and have it look good. I really got the edges cleaned up enough with the pencil and sample tools.

Also, I imagine some will prefer her glamed, but with her original nose and her hair altered less. (And her collar not widened to line up with her face.)

[Ironwood]

1. There's something subtly alien about Miriam in your edit. I'm not sure what it is.

2. The "Believers" were never meant to portray people of faith, but rather stereotypical "fundamentalists" who could potentially be of any religion, and who, unfortunately, actually do exist, albeit in smaller numbers than fearfully fundamentalist Atheists often suspect.

3. Obligatory: lol, Miriam got "airbrushed."

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

1. There's something subtly alien about Miriam in your edit. I'm not sure what it is.

Right or middle? Maybe the change in her expression. Maybe the slight nose job on the end shot. The whole point was just to see if I could do it with the minimum of change, but making her not piggy-and-mean looking is a huge change.

I mean, I guess I could take another pass at the middle shot if you like, and move the corners of her eyes and mouth down to put them back in line with her enlarged features... That ought to restore her priggish expression but leave her partly de-uglified. Hmmm?

2. The "Believers" were never meant to portray people of faith, but rather stereotypical "fundamentalists" who could potentially be of any religion, and who, unfortunately, actually do exist, albeit in smaller numbers than fearfully fundamentalist Atheists often suspect.

Yeah, I've heard that noise before.

Look, I grew up Southern Baptist, before they were a wing of the Republican Party. I stopped going to church in the eighties when it became too much of a pain to be a registered Democrat and be around these people and their ignorant opinions. I know them well, have a huge grudge, and still think the protrayal's unfair.

I'm sorta agnostic, so it's not that either.

I knew pretty much an exact Miriam clone in Junior High. Maria Stevens- Jehovah's Witness with the same hair color, same perpetual sour expression, same world-view as implied for Miriam. She'd be in her forties by now, and probably looks very much like Miriam- back then she was actually somewhat cute physically, albeit quite skinny, if you could get past the 'tude.

I know that they are out there, and I'd say in greater numbers than you characterise, too. I live in the southeast, and I'm not even claiming church people aren't all ignorant conservatives- mostly they are around here. What I am complaining about is that they're not all hateful.

I'm like the Arab-American who says his first thought when he heard about 9/11 was "Please don't let it be one of us who did this." Everyone gets tared with the same brush, y'know? On some level, this faction is an insult to my mother. My brother the missionary, too, for that matter.

I don't want it to sound like it's that big a deal to me. I was just throwing it out there in connection with a little side project. I don't think your stock answer does justice to the issue, though.

The ugliness and ugly attitude of Miriam's portrait is dirty pool, is all.


***
-Whoever,

It's arguable that this thread was always at least as much about the foregoing discussion as about my art tweaks, or I'd have started it here in the first place. Was it necessary to move it?

[vyeh]

***
-Whoever,

It's arguable that this thread was always at least as much about the foregoing discussion as about my art tweaks, or I'd have started it here in the first place. Was it necessary to move it?

Maybe the moderator is trying to keep the Creation subforum busy. We use to have a demogame forum three years ago ...

[T-hawk]

I've always thought that if the Lord's Believers were led by a pretty young lass with a pleasant Scottish accent, and Gaia's Stepdaughters were led by an older redhead with a temper, that the orange colored faction would be a lot more popular among SMAC players instead of green being everybody's favorite.

The last picture of Miriam only looks alien if you continue to associate the nasty pious attitude with it. It looks like she had Botox. But if you think of that as the kindly nursery school teacher at your local church, it fits quite well. Nice work.

[Illuminatus]

Sadly, I considered the opening remark as an April fools joke. This must be the first time I hear that the Miriam's portrait is an ugly portrayal (pun intended) of the "people of faith". She doesn't seem to me uglier than other leaders. In fact, try as I might, I cannot see her ugly at all. I think that of all the original 7, Santiago is the one long overdue for a "treatment".

I'll only echo that Believers are not intended to represent Christians but Fundamentalists. Even then, Believers are not depicted in any worse light than other factions.

As for the "alien" look of your airbrushed portrait, I think the pupils are a bit too big - it makes them somewhat unnatural.

It's arguable that this thread was always at least as much about the foregoing discussion as about my art tweaks, or I'd have started it here in the first place. Was it necessary to move it?

I believe it fits better in Creation subforum, considering that it primary is about an updated faction portrait.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

It's news to you that Miriam is butt-ugly? Oookay.

I agree that Santigo could be improved. I've thought the same myself, and probably will take a run at it soon, now that you've said so.

You're probably right about the pupils-- but zoom in close on the portraits-- There's some creepy thing going on with the pupil in her right eye sitting a lot higher than her left. I didn't fix that much, and it may show more with larger eyes...

As for the rest, I've said my piece for now. You and I would clearly be talking past each other to go into it further.

T-Hawk; you totally get it. Thank you. You might want to check out the Eye of the Beholder thread for a little related stuff.

[Illuminatus]

Yeah, I've heard that noise before.

I don't think your stock answer does justice to the issue, though.

It's news to you that Miriam is butt-ugly? Oookay.

As for the rest, I've said my piece for now. You and I would clearly be talking past each other to go into it further.

Considering how you immediately and ill-manneredly brush off others you disagree with, you are reinforcing - not dismantling alleged stereotypes. That said, try to take my remark on a lighter note as we are all comrades here.

And I still disagree that Miriam's got an evil or ugly look - of all game related things aggressive AI setting has more to do with such feelings. Santiago's portrait is the one which does the least justice - it is like two versions were interpolated into one. Her face structure looks unnatural - just look at her nose ridge and eye sockets.

I wonder if I should at one point start a complaint thread how scientists are unfairly portrayed as unethical with University of Planet faction.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Considering how you immediately and ill-manneredly brush off others you disagree with, you are reinforcing - not dismantling alleged stereotypes. That said, try to take my remark on a lighter note as we are all comrades here.

Well, I'm not one of them... I'm an example of nerds being rude... I like your last sentiment, though

And I still disagree that Miriam's got an evil or ugly look -

See, there's a thing where it's hard to see us finding common ground. Good discussion/argument needs to find common ground, and that's hard to do with subjective tastes.

But here goes. Her eyes are tiny. Her hair is a short haystack. Her cheeks are chubby, almost jowly, and her lips narrow. No/nearly-invisible eyebrows. These are all pretty universally considered unattractive traits, any one or two of which renders a person not so great to look at. She got piled-on with all of them- all she's missing is asymmetrical features.

If her mouth were horizontally widened instead of narrowed she'd merely look intense. As it stands, she looks hostile AND like she openly doesn't approve of you.

of all game related things aggressive AI setting has more to do with such feelings.

There is that. Important point.

Santiago's portrait is the one which does the least justice - it is like two versions were interpolated into one. Her face structure looks unnatural - just look at her nose ridge and eye sockets.

I think it's mostly the asymmetry of her cheeks. The shading on the right side is a little bit off, which makes that eye socket narrower and less deep-set. Her eyes are too narrow, no whites show, and the perspective is faintly off on her nose/mouth. Not enough eyebrows again.

I need to finish my first set of factions for Eye of the Beholder first, but I have to tackle this soon thereafter.

-In my opinion, this is indeed another example of an ideology someone at Firaxis ten years ago didn't care for getting the business. It's just even harder to sympathize with gun nuts, or I'm sure you'd hear occasional complaints.

(It's important to note, too, that the designers were dealing in archetypes for gaming purposes, not attempting an even-handed human race sim. Not that big a deal.)

Besides, her mouth and braid are hot. She's close to being quite good-looking, which I suppose may be why her flaws bother you.-

[Illuminatus]

If her mouth were horizontally widened instead of narrowed she'd merely look intense. As it stands, she looks hostile AND like she openly doesn't approve of you.

This is where we differ in our interpretations. I would say she has a calm and serene expression. Lack of obvious attractive features is fitting for Miriam because they emphasize her strength of character. Her charisma and leadership flow from her ability to shape thoughts of others and inspire them. Also, Believers should emphasize spiritual over physical and be ascetic so it isn't fitting for them to devote unnecessary time towards good looks. This is why of all your changes I dislike changes to the hair the most - it would imply that she is overly concerned with the looks of her hair.

In my opinion, this is indeed another example of an ideology someone at Firaxis ten years ago didn't care for getting the business. It's just even harder to sympathize with gun nuts, or I'm sure you'd hear occasional complaints.

I am not sure if I correctly understand your thoughts in this passage. Could you rephrase them?

(It's important to note, too, that the designers were dealing in archetypes for gaming purposes, not attempting an even-handed human race sim. Not that big a deal.)

And that is precisely my point. Lord's Believers are Fundamentalist archetype, not Christian archetype. They are driven by their conviction that they are to build a physical Kingdom of Heaven on Chiron, their promised land. Although the cross is their symbol thew draw much more from the Old Testament (and we all know that Old Testament god is wrathful and aggressive). I am grateful for this creative twist instead of going for the generic solution and basing Believers on Islamism and Kuran.

Besides, her mouth and braid are hot. She's close to being quite good-looking, which I suppose may be why her flaws bother you.-

I am not one of those who is influenced by someones looks or their attractiveness. In a related note I am quite annoyed by many of the leaderheads in Civ4. My biggest beef with Santiago is just the fact she looks inhuman due to shading and background colours. Miriam has a nice symmetric face and human features. If you squint, Santiago looks like one of Star Trek races.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

This is where we differ in our interpretations. I would say she has a calm and serene expression. Lack of obvious attractive features is fitting for Miriam because they emphasize her strength of character. Her charisma and leadership flow from her ability to shape thoughts of others and inspire them. Also, Believers should emphasize spiritual over physical and be ascetic so it isn't fitting for them to devote unnecessary time towards good looks. This is why of all your changes I dislike changes to the hair the most - it would imply that she is overly concerned with the looks of her hair.

I’d be interested to hear if others see it this way.

Hmmm. I did get that she’s got an almost Amish thing going with the plainness. I’ll do another edit for you, with the old hair put back and her expression altered differently. Let me know if you’re any happier with it or not.

I am not sure if I correctly understand your thoughts in this passage. Could you rephrase them?

Sure. Partly, I’m speculating that she was given some of the same treatment as Miriam for the same reasons. If you were making this game back then you probably wouldn’t kill yourself trying to be fair to factions whose politics you found repulsive unless it made the game better. We can’t not bring our biases to the table.

There’s the thing, too, that they had to know a lot of users would beeline for the “kewl pwnage” faction. I think it’s clear that they tried to ameliorate this with an attractive Deidre, and in other ways, to make the hippies the most appealing faction instead. I’d guess that the original painting of Santiago turned out way, way too good-looking to conform to the design philosophy/needs of the game, and adjustments had to be made.

I am grateful for this creative twist instead of going for the generic solution and basing Believers on Islamism and Kuran.

An easier decision in 1999, of course.

I am not one of those who is influenced by someones looks or their attractiveness. In a related note I am quite annoyed by many of the leaderheads in Civ4.

You know that makes you less shallow than most of us, right? Looks matter most of the time, and it’s better to err on the side of being too cute.

For a TV example, you’ll recall that when Delta Burke porked-up on Designing Women while playing a role that was supposed to be a hyper-vain beauty queen, it was a big deal out in public. When Patricia Heaton did the same thing in reverse on Everybody Loves Raymond, and became, not average, but just another sitcom wife way out of her husband’s league looks-wise, I’m not aware of anyone saying boo about it.

Looks matter, and it’s mostly a visceral thing, not subject to a rationality check. Perhaps we should ask scient to look into it!

My biggest beef with Santiago is just the fact she looks inhuman due to shading and background colours. Miriam has a nice symmetric face and human features. If you squint, Santiago looks like one of Star Trek races.

…Which tempts me to do an edit with weird sinus ridges added to her forehead…

***

I put the scan lines into the largest portrait for the alien splinter faction I'm making for Darsnan while I was waiting for the reply page to load. I'll have that posted in the next few hours and then figure to do some more "airbrushing".

...It'll be all your fault, Illuminatus.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

A compromise

Here ya go.

Miriam 1.51 was done completely in Paint and is not an "airbrush" job. No cleaning up in PhotoShop.

I worked from the intermediate shot, Miriam 1.5, and kept the bangs, but cleaned them up- that and the position of the part is all that is changed from Miriam's original hair. Now she looks like she might've combed her hair quickly since she got out of bed, but may not have looked in the mirror while she did it. I submit to you that it greatlly improves the look of the hair without violating the "plain" spirit of the 'do.

Putting the expression back without completely reverting her features was more work than the original alteration. I had to undo half the change to her eyes and surrounding area to get it to work at all, and I don't find the result entirely satisfactory.

Her jawline is faintly more symetrical now than in 1.5, putting a teeny bit of the lost weight back, and I put the slight widening of the collar back in- her face lines up with her body better that way.

It is educational to load the various versions in separate copies of Paint and flip between them while they're zoomed and positioned identically. You can see precisely what I did to her that way.



Paging Illuminatus... Paging Ironwood... Thoughts?

[Illuminatus]

You know that makes you less shallow than most of us, right? Looks matter most of the time, and it’s better to err on the side of being too cute.

Shallow people wouldn't waste so much time on SMAC. Or at least this is what I keep telling myself.

I still prefer original Miriam ( ), but this does look like believable.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I still prefer original Miriam ( ), but this does look like believable.

What with how far apart we started, I'm taking this as high praise...