[C4:AC] Civ4 Smac equivalences HELP NEEDED

[Gavin Berchler]

Just so I don't miss any obvious label changes, can anyone post any label equivalences below here:

eg

Cities= Bases
Palace=Headquarters
settlers= Colony Pods
workers=Terraformers
Civics=Social Engineering
Wonders=Secret Projects
National Wonders=National Projects
Rush Production=Hurry Production
Civliization=Faction
Spy=Probe Team
Animals=Native Life
Food=Nutrients
Commerce=ECONOMY
Rail road=Mag tube
Experience=Morale
Civic = Social Model
Civics=Social Engineering
Great Person=Hyper Talent
Religion= Ideology
etc.

Also Social Engineering Method is a lot longer than Civic. Can someone suggest a word to use for the individual social engineering words.

Eg "You refused to accept our favorite civic!" would become "You refused to accept our favorite Social Enginnering Technique!"

Can someone recommned an alternative language for this?

[GeoModder]

Mmm, responded in random order:

"You refused to accept our favorite Social (Engineering) preferences!"

Hammers=minerals
National Wonders=Faction(al) Projects

Hope this helps.

[Gavin Berchler]

Thanks Geo... I hate the word Factional.... is it even a word??

I have done a lot of relabeling and tweaking of text.

I got a really warm fuzzy when I discoverd a Unity Pod about 5 minutes ago....and it read "We have recovered a resupply pod from the Unity!
It contains manufacturing supplies worth energy credits!"

[Gavin Berchler]

Efficiency=corruption(opposite) eg headquarters will give 100% efficiency and zero corruption. (how many parliaments you know have zero corruption)

I willl keep the existing label for corruption, perhaps that can be changed in sdk to prevent having to recalculate ALL corruption values!)

[murielwasser]

Wonders are Secret Projects, not Special Projects.

Factional is technically a dictionary word, but it's an ugly word, so there's no excuse to use it. Where an adjectival form of "Faction" is entirely neccessary "Faction" itself suffices fine; that's what the characters themselves employ. I feel like there should be a better translation for "National Wonder" than "Faction Wonder" in any event, but I can't think of any at the moment.

The official equivalent of a civic is a society model. To me, "social system" or "social model" rolls off the tongue easier, but I suppose that will vary. A "social engineering technique" would refer to a medium of propaganda, not that propaganda's goal; the term "Social Engineering" refers to your ability to change between and fine-tune the combinations of social models rather than the actual contents of those models.

Corruption is inefficiency.

I think it might be appropriate to leave experience as experience, since we're adopting the new system there and there's no thematic contradiction in assigning units "promotions" (or, perhaps, Special Abilities) in accordance with their "experience." Though the SE value should retain the title of Morale, of course.

We should also figure out the terms associated with concepts we're porting over from Civ4: I think religion has reached a consensus as being translated to "ideology," with a host of more substantive changes; I'd suggest that all the language regarding culture be changed to talk about memetics. (And figure out icons for them, but that's for my thread.)

[murielwasser]

A religion is an ideology.

Culture is memetics. A culture point is a meme.

A Great Person is a Hypertalent. Specific sorts of Hypertalents are Hypertalented: Hypertalented Engineer, Hypertalented Chaplain, &c.

[Gavin Berchler]

Muriel you are really good at this....

Civic = Social Model
Civics=Social Engineering
Great Person=Hyper Talent
I did religion=ideology
and state=faction too
build=construct
cities=bases


Regarding culture, there isn't actually a specific mention of it in the game text... but I thought we would use the word "influence" instead. Although I agree that Memetics is the correct and fits in perfectly I am not sure how many people will understand it...

Edt: on second thoughts I just read the wikipedia article on it... and its exactly right for us. The only reason that it has been discredited is that it cannot be tested, however it sounds really logical.

I am sure that there is a certain professor yang and a professor zakarov who are at this very moment working on their thesis " The comprehensive methods of decimalization and testing of memetic theorys" to be published in the next few years...

Incidently what do you call a holy city? and what would be the equivalent of "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith"

Edit: memetics doesn;t work in most of the labels whereas influence fits perfectly. I would like to include memetics in there somewhere..

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Gavin Berchler

Incidently what do you call a holy city? and what would be the equivalent of "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith"

A holy city might be name a Meme Complex, or a Memeplex. Even though the prase litterarily means "set of ideas", this is just what religion is! I think we can bend the definitions a bit here

Meme-complex – (sometimes abbreviated memeplex) is a collection or grouping of memes that have evolved into a mutually supportive or symbiotic relationship. Simply put, a meme-complex is a set of ideas that reinforce each other. Meme-complexes are roughly analogous to the symbiotic collection of individual genes that make up the genetic codes of biological organisms. An example of a memeplex would be a religion.

And "we care for our broters and sisters of the meme pool"?

A meme pool is the sum total of all memes present in a given population. The term is analogous to gene pool. The meme pool is in essence the matrix of the whole of the culture of a population. Because the memes of instruction of production of material culture are included, then the entire culture, including material culture and interactions between individuals is determined by information held within the meme pool.

Examples of meme pools may included large internet communities such as imageboards, online forums, and wikis. More tangibly, large shopping malls, schools, and other social instutitions may be included in the definition of a meme pool.

Again we'll have to bend the definitions a bit. But this is a game. Not a philosophy class...

[Gavin Berchler]

Comeon Zoid... you can do better than that...
something more inspirational, even dare I say something more poetic!

[murielwasser]

Holy City can simply be a Founding City, or, perhaps, a Historical City. (Though aren't they all?) Adherents of secular ideologies don't seem to place as much emphasis on this sort of thing as religious believers - London isn't particularly dear to Marxist hearts, for instance - so there's no need to really treat them as important, save the prerequisite for building a Shrine-equivalent.

(I can't think of a good equivalent for "Shrine," which isn't the hugest problem since they'll all be their own proper nouned entities, but there's another equivalency for us to identify.)

Dialog concerning memetics can easily talk about influence when that's less awkward. Impressed factions will praise the "power of your artists" and the "universal appeal of your ideas;" factions angry about losing cities will refer to "polluting our faction's culture with foreign memes."

"The U.N. wisely condemns the release of biological viruses upon a helpless population as 'atrocity,' but how shall I appeal your atrocity here - the release of memes engineered to break down the ties that bind our faction like so many processes of the body?"

Co-ideologists towards which one is friendly are "comrades," "brothers-and-sisters-in-arms," "fellow travelers," and "fellow [adherents of ideology in question]." They "share your values." Co-ideologists towards which one is unfriendly are "revisionists" who "pay lip service to [ideology]" who would "do better to remember the [ideological] values that we both share."

[Gavin Berchler]

I like the ideas a lot muriel keep them coming. I think that constant talk of memes would be a bit hard to understand for the average gamer but we evaluate that later.. I definitely want to include allusions to this as it is a really interesting concept.

REgarding the shrines..a bit of creative thought would go into it nicely.. Eg

The Matrialistic(morganite) ideology shrine would be

The 3 Majestic Towers of Commerce: Built by the ideology, the 3 ornate towers represent the 3 towers of society. Commerce, Trade and Profit. The towers are the home to the Chambers of Commerce, the Central Bank and Foreign Trade office as well as as at the top of the tower the stock and energy exchange building as well as the highest shopping area overlooking the city.

We can do more flowery words, but where else would a materialistic society go to "worship"

[Zoid]

Meh, I think Memeplex was quite nice... But I´ll give it some more thought and see if I can come up with something...

[The_Reckoning]

The Morgan shrine could simply be Morgan Central Bank or The Morgan Stock Exchange, or The Morgan Emporium