Planetmind faction

[Mart]

This is interesting, is it confirmed by testing, that unspecified TECH is unlimited?

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Limited options:

Specified free tech (TECH, Ecology)
...
Unlimited options:

Unspecified free tech (TECH, 1)

[Darrell01]

Well, under SMACX editor, you can select up to 8 free unspecified technologies for a faction because its under the "Rules" section. Specific techs, its on the 8 benefit limit.

[Darrell01]

Ok, base named for Planetmind Faction! Here are the prefix and suffix names that I have thought of. For the other half of the base name, refer to this other post and mix and match. Other Post

Abhorrence
Abomination
Angst
Anxiety
Atrocity
Aversion
Awe
Boil
Brood
Consternation
Daemon
Despair
Discomposure
Dismay
Distress
Dread
Fiend
Fright
Foreboding
Hatchling
Heinous
Horde
Horror
Indomitable
Deep Isle
Loathe
Locust
Mass
Nightmare
Panic
Phobia
Psi
Qualm
Repugnance
Revulsion
Sacrificial
Savage
Sealurk
Scare
Scorn
Spore
Suspicion
Swarm
Terror
Trembling
Vicious
Worm

[Flubber]

Interesting idea but if this faction can't research, is the test merely to fight off the numerous worms that are sent in your direction?

A couple of things

1. +5 PLanet ?? I would be interested to see how that works .generall the number of captured natives tops out at or around 10 for +1, +2 or +3 Planet. I'd be curious where it generall tops out at with +5 Planet. Have you experiemented with this feature alone to see what happens?

2. I don't understand the thought behind -5 efficiency or industry. Each cripples this faction badly -- Since it already is a unidimensional worm rusher, I don't see the point in making building most stuff impossible

[Mart]

Originally posted by Darrell01
... up to 8 free unspecified technologies ... Specific techs, its on the 8 benefit limit.

So you mean it is 8 "limited" + 8 unspecified techs?
if unspecified can only add up to limit of 8, they are limited.
this can be tested, maybe i'll take a look

[Chaos Theory]

I haven't tested each entry on the list, so there might be errors. It's easy to check, though - make a faction with eight limited options, and TECH, 5 at the end. If you don't get to pick any techs, then TECH, # should be in the limited category. I'm not sure what the bounds on the # are, but whatever they are, they don't change the category of the bonus.

[Leon Trotsky]

Originally posted by Darrell01
Well, give them free hologram theatres and/or free ability Non-Lethal Meathods as well as free brood pits. The brood pit, on top of making mind worms cheaper, is +2 police in that city and mind worms are able to police the cities. Or better yet, bypass all that and give them free *light shines down out of the sky and onto this post" punishment spheres.

I'd rather not use hologram theatres. Not just because we would have to make up a good excuse, but one of the effects of that facility is fueled by energy - psych, nonetheless. While non lethal methods is nice, I wouldn't spend a slot on that, especially since we already have mindworms making double police work (do you all agree on that one?). Brood pit I like too. As for punishment spheres... now that would be killing two birds with one stone; both complete drone control and crippled research. However, I am not quite convinced about giving that one as a free facility, as it would be quite exploitable. I can picture two situations:

1- Human player as "Planet". Loses a base (perhaps on purpose) and recaptures it, and the punishment sphere is gone. Player then proceeds to build a super science city, effectively circumventing one of the faction premise weaknesses.
2- Human player versus "Planet". Since this faction would have miserable research, any free facilities would be given without the necessary tech. Capturing just one of Planet's bases would make an early Free Market war trivial.

Originally posted by Darrell01
Ok. So looking at my previous post, I've come up with this.

Cult of Planet graphix

Social Ideology - Fundmentalist
Anti Ideology - Democracy

Interesting... I thought of a preference towards Green or Thought Control and aversion to Free Market or Wealth. Now that you mention it, democracy would be quite impossible to carry out in such a... "society", since there is no human will. Then again, that would leave most of the social engineering table superfluous. Anybody else, any ideas?

Originally posted by Darrell01
Fungus Nut/Min/Ene - +2/+2/+2

I am not sure about giving an energy bonus to the fungus. What would this faction use energy for anyway? Recruiting its "army" from the wilderness, building as least facilties as possible, having little or no research, and (as a consequence of the last) seldom upgrading... well, at least that was my idea.

Originally posted by Darrell01
Social Benefit
Support +3
Planet +5
Efficiency -5

We must be careful about social modifiers rolling back. I know about industry and probe, but what about support?
If support is set to the +3 holy grail, Democracy would make a good aversion. Too bad they won't pop boom easily. Also, we could give it impunity to Thought Control, but only if we end up with modifiers to spare (which I doubt).
I really like Planet+5 , it is the soul of the faction.
Efficiency -5 is a two edged sword which will have to be taken care of...

Originally posted by Darrell01
Interest -10%

The only problem I see with negative interest is that it may cause trouble at the maintenance phase. Of course, if there are to be few facilities...

Originally posted by Darrell01
Research Whatever you want, Might start out really weak

This factions should be able to produce all the varieties of native life from landfall. I still think an invisible tech and clones of the natives are the way to go on this one.

Originally posted by Darrell01
Population Bonus - Might mess with this. Maybe -8 or something outrageous

Hold on, you mean the actual population limit, or the way it is written in the faction.txt (its opposite)? That is, do you mean huge bases or really tiny ones?

Originally posted by Darrell01
Immunity to Mind Control
Alien Faction
Worm Police

Fine...

Originally posted by Darrell01
Things to fool around with here:
Efficiency can be changed out to -5 industry.

That could be problematic. What if the AI decides to run Power? There is no way to prevent that.

Originally posted by Darrell01
I took out disassociative wave because this faction probably won't research it and won't be able to have it unless you give it to it, and then the human players would grab it.

I see. Should we leave it for a custom worm, a "royal guard" of sorts?

Originally posted by Darrell01
You can tone down the fungus production to 2/1/0 like Chaos_Theory says, giving you one more slot. You could stick in a technology there. You might give them the tech that allows them to plant fungus.

I think I have a better solution - changing the prerequisites of planting fungus to none. It is clear that for some reason or other we will finish editing alpha.txt , so let's take advantage of that! Besides, who in their right mind would plant fungus before bonus giving techs are researched, anyway? It's not like you would send a former into enemy territory and spend six turns ruining his terraforming, when a simple "destroy improvement" would do.

Originally posted by Darrell01
I think allowing them to do some research is good. Better yet, if you do decide to just completely kill the faction research, you could give them Share Technology 2 or 3 without having to infiltrate them first. This would make sure they are either behind a little in tech, or right up with you, but nuever surpassing you, unless you share all techs you can, then turn in 40 alien artifacts.

Now that you mention it, why not make this race capable of creating some custom alien artifacts? I know Planet doesn't "create" them, but she may know where they are hidden, and might spend its psychic resources looking for them, so there you have a rushed excuse (sorry, I'm tired). I know it sucks, but I'm trying to make this original, please spare me! Does anyone know if the AI will build units with the alien artifact package? They look so neat, haven't you seen them? Artifact rovers, artifact foils... okay, okay, back on chiron. And what about those mindworm clones? We could make them cheap as dirt so that a low industry rating won't hurt. Also, we could borrow one of those wonderful land transports Darnsan just cooked. Psi armour and weapon, of course. Would be like fungal towers on wheels. And the fungal payload for simulating pops, I heard no comments about that one, at least say it's stupid! Pleeease...

...I'm getting annoying, I really should go get some sleep; .

[Darrell01]

Ok, Leon. I was just going to the beginning of your post and checking out what you originally wanted and making that fit in with the faction editor. I don't really do a lot of faction.txt editing. I'll see if I can answer some of these new questions.

Originally posted by mart7x5
So you mean it is 8 "limited" + 8 unspecified techs?
if unspecified can only add up to limit of 8, they are limited.
this can be tested, maybe i'll take a look

Ok, under the first section of the faction editor, there are 8 slots for specified bonuses. I'm not going to list them all here. Just let it be sufficient that selecting specific techs is one tech at a time and it fills up one of these 8 slots. The unspecified techs are in the "Rules" section and there are lots of things there to fool around with. Everything from there that I've given the faction is below the "Punishment Sphere" post. I would put the unspecified tech bonus there, but this faction didn't get it. So, you could give a faction 8 starting techs, but it would have no other SE benefits, free units, free facilities, or things like that.

Originally posted by Flubber
1. +5 PLanet ?? I would be interested to see how that works .generall the number of captured natives tops out at or around 10 for +1, +2 or +3 Planet. I'd be curious where it generall tops out at with +5 Planet. Have you experiemented with this feature alone to see what happens?

2. I don't understand the thought behind -5 efficiency or industry. Each cripples this faction badly -- Since it already is a unidimensional worm rusher, I don't see the point in making building most stuff impossible

1. I'm not making the faction, I'm just streamlining it to Leon's *original* specifications as much as I can and

2a. Same idea. Leon will have to do some research on this industry thing. I know it flips over somewhere. Someone let us know or provide a link pls. So you'll have to take this into account of the faction chooses Power. Perhaps make it -2 Ind.

2b. Same idea as #1 and Leon doesn't want this faction to research at all.

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
This faction is not supposed to do any research.

The -5 efficiency will take care of that quite nicely as well as a penchant for fundamentalism and the Punishment Spheres with immunity to mind control. Which brings us to our next concern...

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
As for punishment spheres...
...
However, I am not quite convinced about giving that one as a free facility, as it would be quite exploitable.

Yes, a human player playing this might well exploit this, but you said here...

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
*** DISCLAIMER ***

Before you all start throwing empty datapods at me, let me say that this is not supposed to be a balanced faction. This is supposed to be overpowered, and should only be played by the AI.

So that takes care of the human player playing it and for the Free Marketer getting a free punishment sphere, well that sounds like a very profitable strategy that someone like CEO Morgan might actually make a large investment in a hostile takeover of such a facility. Besides, he'll have +50% empaths to deal with with the +5 planet.

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky about Fungus Energy +2
What would this faction use energy for anyway?
...
well, at least that was my idea.

Yes it was your idea, that's why I said you could nix that like Chaos_Theory said to streamline it a bit more. You seems to agree with this, so only other thing to add is look up to my second answer on this post, hereby reffered to as Q.2 part 1, meaning I'm just streamlining it to Leon's *original* specifications as much as I can.

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
We must be careful about social modifiers rolling back.

Yes. There is a treatise somewhere about this. Anyone have a link?

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Hold on, you mean the actual population limit, or the way it is written in the faction.txt (its opposite)? That is, do you mean huge bases or really tiny ones?

Yes. You seem to be editing the alpha.txt. I looked into this idea here
about the population thing. The Peacekeepers have a -2 setting in here and Morgan has a 3 setting in here. So my idea would be to make the initial max 15. That would make their bases huge, doing 2 things. Increasing the amount of industy a city makes, thus producing more fungal >pop< for the faction, making their bases create fungus by virtue of growing and polluting. Its sort of like a big human/alien infested fungal tower. Secondly it makes them overpowering like you originally wanted. If they cannot research new techs, they'll need some other powers besides +5 planet. A bonus is if a human takes them over, all these colony pods leave, kinda like spore colonies.

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Now that you mention it, why not make this race capable of creating some custom alien artifacts?

I thought you wanted this faction to *not* research. Wasn't that the idea? That's why I put in the sharetech option. You really won't have to add much to the game if you just use this, and how are you going to get the faction to make them? Seems like more editing then needs to be done, IMHO. Think of it as the Planet has these worm humanoids as a result of the human landing on the planet. One pod hits this fungal tower in just the right spot and this faction is created. Kind of a turnaround of Prophet Chawed On. Worms turned human. The effect of the sharetech thing is that since it is all psychic and all, if a couple faction (2 or 3) have the tech, it gets it without having to infiltrate, thus making up for the no research restriction of the faction.

Finally, the disassociative wave thing. You can switch the -5 Efficiency for that if you want. It just seems to be a largely wasted bonus for a faction that will not be researching the tech to put on its units. If you give it to the faction as a unit with a bogus tech, that's 2 benefits slots, at least, further getting away from the original intent of the faction. Personally, I don't edit things and make all these 2 square moving land transports and Zombie Worm Artillery. If you want to go thru all that, then more power to you, my friend.

[dmm1285]

Re: Re: I made a similar faction a few years ago

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Thanks! I know I wasn't being original at all...



Now I am confused... Master Chaos says this faction is cannon fodder, now you tell me you had problems balancing fungus resources... my head a splode!

Well, my version is a little bit dfferent than yours, but you need to be careful with the fungues resources

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Interesting. I think that I'll use no bonus energy. The less energy this faction has, the better. I don't want it subverting bases, cornering the global market, or *gulp* making research breakthroughs.



Hey, that's a good one. Not only does it lower native lifeforms costs, but it also frees me one social engineering slot.



Do Alien Offense/Defense only affect conventional combat? Or by "really high" you meant really, really high in order to compensate?



Let's get scouring...

I mean REALLY high to compensate. Here is my thread on the idea:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136617

Another cool bonus that I wanted to use is free fungul tower. It wil turn back to alien after one turn. but you can build a base on it in turn 1, giving you a fungus producer for your first base, and protection from native worms (I don't think will attack the native tower in your HQ)