[C4:AC][Programming] Technology Tree

[Blake]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
I'd say either the smac way (currently nearly impossible) or the civ4 way. Not yet another (our own) system.

Please atleast try to be realistic. It's not like the SMAC way is coded for us (until SDK I don't think it's codable at all), and it's not like the SMAC tech tree is entirely compatible with the Civ4 way. It's like this, Civ4 tech costs are balanced around the "OR" relationships. We can't really use exactly the same cost structure for a purely "AND" tech tree. So what it comes down to is finding a reasonable comprimise.

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I would like a copy of the tech tree, maybe once you're up to lvl5-6 techs. Thus I can start attaching stuff to techs and doing preliminary balance/AI testing. I'm starting to think we need some kind of versioning control to merge changes.

[Rubin]

Blake, the problem with adding new technologies is that technologies are a central part of Civ4. Starting technologies, terraform options, AI handicap modifiers, victory conditions (I think), age transitions (again, I think), and so on. All of this is related to the technology tree and would need to be modified in order to avoid corruption of gameplay.

Another problem (which I've briefly discussed with Darsnan) is merging changes. So far, I have been using "copy & paste" for adding or merging changes. It is somewhat cumbersome, but manageable at this point.

Tier 1-5 technologies make up for about 50% of the entire SMACX technology tree. That would require some careful work in order to make the game playable (deleteing the default tier 1-5 technologies and make sure all references are changed, etc.). Until we can isolate the technology references for most game concepts, adding technologies is only partially viable--I believe we do need some kind of technology replacement (i.e. "Applied Physics" substitues "Archery" in the AI handicap references, etc.).

Having said that, I'll try doing the tier 1 and tier 2 technologies with graphics and text quotes--without deleting the default technologies. Perhaps this could be of use initially?

[Blake]

Very much so. For example only tier1&2 is needed to make the factions. (since factions recieve free techs only from tier1/2)

Are you sure you can't just do a "Rip it all out" job, like for example with the tech tree in the Desert War mod?

Well I suppose I'm about to find out, as I try and rip out all the default civ traits and replace them with my own .

[Rubin]

Originally posted by Blake
Are you sure you can't just do a "Rip it all out" job, like for example with the tech tree in the Desert War mod?

I don't know. I haven't looked at MODs changing the technology tree, but perhaps it is possible. I did try to simply delete the default technologies... that didn't work very well.

[Blake]

Well you'd have got cascading errors, as techs are referenced from amoung other places, the civ starting techs, facility techs etc. But we DO need to do a big rip-out.

The idea is to go through all the files, like Units, Buildings etc, and basically deleting most the contents. Then to add stuff back in we take it from the original game files (using copy-paste-edit). Make sense? That I assume is how they did the Desert War mod.

[Rubin]

Originally posted by Blake
The idea is to go through all the files, like Units, Buildings etc, and basically deleting most the contents. Then to add stuff back in we take it from the original game files (using copy-paste-edit). Make sense?

Well, that is pretty much the principle I've been working with so far. Initially, I believe we'd want the framework of the technology references done. This seems a significant task: Modifying all the relevant files! But, if this is a sound way of implementing the technology tree then we'd have a solid basis to build upon.

I've got the first 18 technologies done (all tier 1 and tier 2 technologies) with main references (except audio) and new icons. I still need to do most of the additional entries, though (civilopedia, quotes, etc.). I'll probably be re-arranging the F6 Advisor screen to go with the new technologies too.

I'll be referencing the audio files according to the default SMACX file names. Then it is a simple matter of copying all the technology mp3 files into the ...\assets\sounds\tech folder.

[#endgame]

How about Doctrine - Mobility? It conveys the same sort of thing.

[Arkatreides]

Are you going to recreate the tech tree verbatim as it was in SMAC(X) or will you change it?

The reason I ask is because the new alternative prerequisites would make it easier to focus on on of the 4 big directions. So for example if I wanted to research a C4 tech I would REQUIRE a C3 and have a bunch of B3,D3,E3 tech as optional requirements as well.

This in my opinion would make the game more interesting as there would be different ways through the tech tree.

[Rubin]

Here's a reworked version of the tier 1 and tier 2 technologies.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=28782_SMACX_Technologies.zip

[EmperorJay]

What are the changes?

Did you change anything in the TextInfos_Objects.XML? We have to be a bit careful keeping track of versions of that file scince both techs and facilities are in it.

[#endgame]

Perhaps setting up some kind of version control system would be a good idea (e.g. SVN)?

[Rubin]

EmperorJay, these technology files have not been publicly available before. They are identical to the ones I sent you and were completed late November.

#endgame, I believe a "version control system" of some kind is required, but I am hoping we can produce a "clean base" without the default Civ4 technologies that still works with the game. The idea is to work upon that base; hence I am hesitating to add additional technologies.

The main progress so far has been regarding understanding the file structure and how to add or replace technologies (including text, graphics, audio, etc.). My conclusion is that doing the SMAC/X technology tree for Civ4 is a fairly easy task. Changing the game mechanics to reflect the SMAC/X system, however, is one of the major problems currently.

[EmperorJay]

My conclusion is that doing the SMAC/X technology tree for Civ4 is a fairly easy task. Changing the game mechanics to reflect the SMAC/X system, however, is one of the major problems currently.

I agree...
It's more or less the same with buldings: if you know how to do it it takes ~5min to add the energy bank, but there is just now way to get a building like the children's creche into civ4.

[Senethro]

I thought this a good thread to bump as its a relatively "easy" task and the techtree is the backbone of a Civ game.

Edit: Rubin, did you ever host your new files anywhere? I was hoping to make a first draft of the facilities xml and could add them to the tech tree.

[Rubin]

Senethro, the link to the files is in reply #39 in this thread.

With the SDK I am hoping that we are able to decide upon a suitable file structure that allows for easier modding when several people are working on the same set of files... and easier playtesting without the need to modify all the xml files that currently depend on the information in the CIV4TechInfos.xml file.