[C4:AC][Programming] First try: harvester

[Rubin]

Originally posted by mdbill
The internal tags would be "nice to have" changed, but I'm surprised you put "Crawling [Hammers]" in the display instead of "Supplying [Hammers]". Maybe you're just being silly on purpose cus the XML can be changed any time.

SMACX uses "Convoy minerals" in the display. Here are some images of the text (icons) displayed in the game (for the default unit):

[PJayTycy]

Release Candidate 1 ready:

Fixes / Changes:
=> Interface is updated immediately (ie: after rehoming a unit, the rehome command disapears immediately)
=> Enable crawl-actions for a unit if he is the one currently crawling a tile.
=> Changed all references to "crawl" to either "convoy" or "supply".
=> Replaced the fixed "Home city:", "Independant" and "Crawling:" texts with TXT-tags to be loaded from xml.
=> Solved save/load issues
=> Rehoming only works in bases of your own team (previously it was possible to rehome in every city you could enter (ie: open borders)).

Left issues:
=> Start crawling without moves left.
Currently I show the icon, but the action isn't started. There are 2 options:
a) Remove icons from the interface when no moves left.
b) Try to remember you ordered the crawl command the previous turn.

=> Some text needs rewording and translation.



Screenshots:
xml-loaded texts for rehome command


xml-loaded texts for the convoy missions (notice this unit is currently convoying hammers and I moused-over the "convoy commerce" mission.


xml-loaded text and strategy when the "what to build next" popup appears.


I don't have a screenshot of the civilopedia, but it should be OK too.


Mod:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=63544_C4AC.zip

SDK Source:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=63544_C4AC_source.zip

[Maniac]

Do you need to be in the city you want to rehome the supply crawler to?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Oh for the love of all that is Holy lets nip that bug right now, having to return units to a City to ReHome them was a terrible Idea in SMAC, it makes no sense. We should Be able to re-home to any base at any time!

[MMC]

Actually, it helps to balance the crawlers if you have to move them back and forth to rehome them... plus it's only a fraction of the coding work

[Maniac]

It creates annoying micromanagement though. Perhaps a better balancing idea would be that the further a crawler operates from its home base, the more gold or something it costs to maintain the supply operation. Diminshing returns in other words.

Since the goal of C4:AC is to create a copy of SMAC, I guess this shouldn't be added now, but would it be possibl to add something like this at a later date?

[Senethro]

Ooof, I'm kind of split here. Reducing micromanagement wouldn't be a bad thing. I doubt we're going to agree how to do it (and balance crawlers at the same time). Perhaps I'll start a list of things that are worth changing if we decided to do a rebalancing once we've finished the mod. ([pessimism]That'll be 3 years down the line then[/pessimism] )

[Impaler[WrG]]

Yes I see your point we cant get into a debate over every item we think should be fixed, I just ask them as people do their coding they atleast make it easy to change in the future. For the time being sticking to a strait clone is faster.

As for balancing Crawlers I dont think its realy possible the crawler is just about the most inherently unbalancable thing in all of Civ as its basicaly an exponential mineral gatherer.

[PJayTycy]

The hardest part will be creating a user interface for that command. The actual rehoming can be done through python code with these 2 functions I already added and exported to python:
CyCity* CyUnit->getHomeCity()
CyUnit->setHomeCity(CyCity* pNewValue)
So, whatever you come up with as a "fix" for this thing I didn't even know we wanted to change, it will be possible through python.


However, such discussions about reballancing / changing smacx / feature requests would fit better in a different thread. I'd like to keep this one for reports on the actual features included.

Btw: did anybody notice I didn't code the "transfer 1 resource / year from city x to city y" missions?

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
As for balancing Crawlers I dont think its realy possible the crawler is just about the most inherently unbalancable thing in all of Civ as its basicaly an exponential mineral gatherer.

As an expert SMACer, if I may say so myself, I call that bull****.

Crawling minerals on a rocky mined square is unparallelled I agree. Even in the late game it's still one of the best investments. However rocky squares are a limited "resource" - you can't make more of them.

It's different for forests. Those spread automatically so you usually have some spare forests lying around you can crawl. However while crawling forests for two minerals is a good investment it's most definitely not the ultimate game-ender. A well-executed popboom or given the right SE settings/faction/SP an ICS is - while not as easy - much more powerful than crawler spam. The return of a crawler harvesting forest is usually 1/15: two minerals per turn for 30 min investment. So the 'secret' of building a good SMAC economy is very simple: find stuff to build that give a higher annual return than 1/15.

Personally in my games you'll only see crawlers crawling rocky squares, travelling to a rocky square or towards a base to hurry something. Anything else would be a sign I'm not playing at peak efficiency.

Anyway, as PJayTycy suggests, we'd better discuss this elsewhere.

Btw: did anybody notice I didn't code the "transfer 1 resource / year from city x to city y" missions?

It's not as if anyone ever uses those. Perhaps if you could transfer more than one resource per turn per crawler, it might be useful. I assume it should be easy to add. I've seen food caravan mods etc around. (Easy to say for me of course - I know **** about Python and programming )

[Maniac]

I tested out the crawler. Looking good.
I have two feature requests:
Would it be possible to let crawlers turn villages into hamlets etc by crawling them?
The crawler (as any great person I assume) can only hurry buildings it seems. Would it be possible to also let them hurry unit production?

[MMC]

I would suggest we split the crawler at this stage... as long as you have the basic SMAC features working (minus graphics or whatever is missing), you should slit that off, then you can continue to work on a 'Civ4 Crawler' that can deal with villages and stuff (since SMAC doesn't actually have any villages).

[PJayTycy]

Turning villages into hamlets can be done easily, by setting the plot as being worked. This will also make the tile having the "being worked" apearance (big yield icons, animations, ...). However, I decided not to do that as it would unballance the unit even more.

About hurrying : I didn't change any code for that, just the xml. It's an area I didn't really work on yet, so can't comment how easy it will be (ie: while still having GP-hurrying buildings only).

[ForesterSOF]

Good going.

We dont want to add/come-up with ideas and create a MOD that is unbalanced.

Just fix problems if we can. IMHO

[Maniac]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
However, I decided not to do that as it would unballance the unit even more.

I don't see how this would be unbalancing. If it's too overpowered, just increase the cost of the crawler and problem solved. 240 hammers or so a piece?