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  • #16
    Well, a lot of good points. I have to admitt, that I also place bases in regions quite densly. Why? Simply, to use tiles, that are already terraformed, with ability to switch between bases. There are however differences, that you also wrote:

    - a base must either have a crawler from the start or a tile having at least 2 nutrients. For me it is ok, that a base will not grow. I am ok with assigning for example several crawlers making 2 minerals from forests. Base just does not do colony pods, but is ok with making formers, or other stuff.

    - I must have a good reason to make a base in particular location. It is difficult to support it and make it grow, so for example - a choke point, or a tile moving my borders in a strategic way. In my game I made a base, that required a crawler from the start for nutrients and some for minerals in order to develop it a bit. My gain was splitting off some Miriam territory. Later Morgan took over that base. I gained also acces to ocean in that particular location.

    - dry areas usually stay unsettled. It is that value of nutrient bonus resources and monoliths on the map is increased. usually it is the place, I send colony pod. later a crawler and the base can develop.

    Is it so much difficult to develop bases? I agree it is, however for a skillful player it should not pose a problem at all. It is a matter a planning, and that is it. Colony pod may be sent with a crawler or 2 of them for example. Expensive? yes. But AI is due it largely enhanced - it has its nutrient satellites from the start. I made many things helping player in this mod:

    - 2 "unity supply droids"
    - 2 free, independent formers
    - no nutrient restrictions! find rainy tile, and make a farm right away, base can grow to size 2 and make colony pod.

    and specific to this scenario:
    - freshwater sea
    - unity foil there, large chance for kelp farm

    ---------------------
    Very good point pertaining to real benefits of ICS.
    So this setup more prevents ICS anywhere. Now, it is more difficult to ICS, since you need good tiles on map for it.

    I will have to try the thing with facilities, as you propose. Only bad thing is, that you cannot assign upkeep to satellites. I tried. I preferred large upkeep, but since game engine does not allow it, I chose larger price.
    ---------------------
    So it may be in fact only little "anti-ICS". But still interesting modification to a play, that requires more from a human player and helps this way AI, that has its benefits, human player does not.
    Mart
    Map creation contest
    WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

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    • #17
      I suspect it'd play quite a bit differently without the extremely heavy pressure from the AI's compounded with learnings the new game mechanics. Playing again I'd probably try and research plasma armor quickly then research straight to Env.Eco, bypassing crawlers entirely. Then a tech-trade orgy. I'd also need to trade for D:Loyalty from the Yangster for perimeter defenses. I don't think plasma alone would stand up to miriam, even without the wealth morale penalty. The other temptation is researching Doc.Flex quickly to start terraforming the sea, but that puts defenses and land terraforming far behind...

      The main problem with crawlers in this scenario is the AI just wrecks them, and without the fallback of orbitals it's nessecary for some serious investment in terraforming. Well it's possible to rely on Morgan's charity...

      PS. My pops were all worms. I got 1 kelp pop, but that was on Miriam's side of the lake and just a single tile of kelp. The IoD's did atleast leave the foil alone so I could pop more IoD's, yay. With land pods I eventually got an artifact but it was mostly just worms and more worms.

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      • #18
        I started a 2nd game to try another approach (my first game is going fine though).

        I started by switching to plan.

        Miriam declaared vendetta on me.
        Morgan declared vendetta on me.

        Miriam squished me. (over a dozen laser units attacking at once, 2 synth defenders didn't stand a chance even with sensor bonus, altough they took out 8 miriam units)

        edit: 3rd attempt starts with a Monolith popped within University Base radius. I keep my SE neutral and get in bed with Morgan. Then Miriam calls and offers a pact vs Santiago, so I get in bed with Miriam too. Trade ind.econ for doc.flex so can go terraforming happy.

        This looks like it's going to be a pure gravy building game. I'll gladly run Simple to stay chummy with Miriam.
        Last edited by Blake; October 3, 2005, 06:07.

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        • #19
          At 2160 I got Env.Eco (I decided to get Ind.Auto first after all). I'm ringing the pond with boreholes and filling it with kelp/tidal. Miriam and Morgan are good bedmates and Dee is an uneasy bedmate (I'm in FM and she's a bit pissy about that, but scared ****less of Santiago), the commerce income is nice with the boreholes and tidals being worked.

          Santiago completely exterminated Lal at 2197, unfortunately he used the escape pod, I was hoping he would be captured so I could do an awesome commando-mission to liberate him from Spartan HQ and make him my ***** for all time. Santiago did all this with elite impact units, and Lal had perimeter defenses and plasma units at many bases!

          I sneaked a peek at Lal' new position and notice he's on an island where he can;t found a base, I think I'll create a sea base near Hive territory and immediately donate it to Lal, then a few turns later "liberate" him from Hive HQ.

          Pretty easy this time. With 3 pactmates and 2 boogeymonsters to fight. The good-guys combined research is blasting the Hive's out of the water.

          Other thoughts on anti-ICS. Could make pods a larger investment (prehaps 4 rows) and make bases grow faster.
          I quite like the SNAC change of making population require 3 food instead of 2. That was combined with base tile production of 2/0/2 and rec.tanks of 3/0/2 (or they might be reversed). One effect of bumping up food costs is each orbital only supports 1/3rd of a citizen rather than 1/2, and also means bases need a larger footprint to grow.

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          • #20
            I played such a game with Fluxionman, who made nutrient requirement 3, in a SMAC mod. Quite interesting play, but game ended after like 20 turns.

            In my game I was able to get all Freshwater sea to my possesions. So far I have no wars in 2184. Just giving everything to AI, when they want it. I run Demo/FreeMarket/Wealth.
            Morgan wins somewhat over Miriam. She did something bad, I suppose. But it is ok.

            Blake, you have a lot interesting ideas, how to modify the game to deviate somewhat from ICS strategies. Then there remains problem of factions, that are hit by it most seriously, those that can ICS, but not popboom. All rebalancing would have to be done again.

            I have some more ideas too. I wonder how it would play, if you turn off both ICS and population boom for human player. Well, you could still ICS, just with less benefits, though population boom might be impossible till future society choices, so quite late in the game.
            Mart
            Map creation contest
            WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

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            • #21
              How would you turn off pop-booming for a player and not for the AI? (provided you don't force a player to use the same faction all the time)
              He who knows others is wise.
              He who knows himself is enlightened.
              -- Lao Tsu

              SMAC(X) Marsscenario

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Blake
                Miriam squished me. (over a dozen laser units attacking at once, 2 synth defenders didn't stand a chance even with sensor bonus, altough they took out 8 miriam units)
                Looks quite good. So Miriam attacks with her:
                2 (laser) +1 (50%) = 3
                against:
                4 (synth) + 1 (25%) = 5

                Am I correct with the estimate?

                Then she takes out 1 defender with 4 her laser units. It is good that AI is capable of such offensives. Doubling armor did not make it impossible to win. Just much more expensive. When AI has enough bonusses, it can compete.

                This is also what I noticed in Nexus Experiment, where there was no alphax.txt modification. I gave AI faction 200% on defensive. They fight more. Though the effects here in Deimos are somewhat better, I think.
                Mart
                Map creation contest
                WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by GeoModder
                  How would you turn off pop-booming for a player and not for the AI? (provided you don't force a player to use the same faction all the time)
                  Using the ability that faction atributes are saved into the save file. You can change it differently for AI and for humans.
                  Mart
                  Map creation contest
                  WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Ah ok, you mean a CMN simply 'loads' an adapted faction file for the player when starting/creating a game.
                    He who knows others is wise.
                    He who knows himself is enlightened.
                    -- Lao Tsu

                    SMAC(X) Marsscenario

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Yes, although there are other ways to make it simple just to start a game in singleplayer. Smacksim did it in his Aldebaran mod. You write additional faction choices, if I am correct, into alphax.txt. Then you can make AI and Human versions of factions. I would need to check this.
                      Mart
                      Map creation contest
                      WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mart7x5

                        Looks quite good. So Miriam attacks with her:
                        2 (laser) +1 (50%) = 3
                        against:
                        4 (synth) + 1 (25%) = 5

                        Am I correct with the estimate?
                        It would be more in favor of Miriam because she has higher morale. I think most her units were hardened and mine green. Altough I had sensor bonus so it's still approximately what you estimate.

                        Does Santiago have a +50% attack bonus too? I can't quite see her smashing Lal so easily without a bonus...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blake
                          Does Santiago have a +50% attack bonus too? I can't quite see her smashing Lal so easily without a bonus...
                          Yes, Spartans and Believers are warrior factions here.
                          Mart
                          Map creation contest
                          WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I just checked Aldebaran mod.
                            It is actually more easy to add some additional factions to the list, that shows for selection at game creation:

                            #CUSTOMFACTION

                            this is not used in original alphax.txt, so here comes possibility for a mod.

                            Or maybe, the original alphax.txt might be modified with it, since as I understand it does not effect anything else, I mean other game rules. this description is in the file:
                            ; These are factions you want included in the startup list.
                            ; These may also be chosen when a random faction is selected.
                            ; First item is file name, second item is search key.
                            ; These should always be the same except for debugging purposes.
                            ;
                            #CUSTOMFACTIONS
                            Mart
                            Map creation contest
                            WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              After a few turns of silence, while I had to discover Air Power myself, Morgan agreed to open commlink. He gave me Orbital Spaceflight. Nice.

                              Like 2 turns later he asked, already like third time maybe for help in fighting Miriam. I refused, and no attitude drop still. Nice. Then Morgan asks for 225 EC to help his efort. Well, I have 509 EC, so I can be generous. And just before I closed commlink I had a thought, maybe in return CEO would aid my efforts to survive. He gave me all his energy around 2150 EC. With income 658/turn he will get it in less than 3 turns.

                              Meanwhile, I just completed Aerospace Complex in University Base. So there goes first satellite, hurried for like 836 EC. Cheap...
                              -----------------
                              So in 2199 there goes first University orbital installation.
                              At the same time, Lal tries to win the game:

                              Unite behind me:

                              173 - Deirdre
                              115 - Yang
                              49 - Zakharov
                              594 - Lal - the only YEA
                              93 - Santiago
                              54 - Miriam
                              90- Morgan

                              Measure fails 594/574

                              This must be taken care of. Santiago is already in vendetta against Lal.
                              Last edited by Mart; October 8, 2005, 06:10.
                              Mart
                              Map creation contest
                              WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You have the least pop?
                                He who knows others is wise.
                                He who knows himself is enlightened.
                                -- Lao Tsu

                                SMAC(X) Marsscenario

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