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**#endgame** · June 25, 2005, 00:41

Careful with the psions - You might remove any benefit of getting escrets of the brain early, and give them another free starting tech. Looks like a bit too many + for not enough - too.

**MysticWind** · July 14, 2005, 15:15

No other advice? I'll add the last two factions soon.

**Chaos Theory** · July 14, 2005, 15:42

Originally posted by Maniac:
The Doomsday Missile [Planet Buster] is still scrapped though, as I discovered they didn't have their planet buster capability as a basic unit type.

Though I haven't tested this, it leads me to believe you won't be able to give the AXIS a free PB via their .txt file (though you could certainly do it in a scenario).

Originally posted by Mystic Wind:
150% Construction time for Colony Pods (Quality over quantity)

I've said this about 3 times: you cannot change the cost of a particular unit for a particular faction.

The New Athenians are still very strong - they don't need police, so -2 police doesn't hurt, +1 industry more than makes up for -1 support, and -1 research is more than compensated for by an almost total lack of need for drone control.
Overall, your factions are stronger than those in SMAC/X. While this isn't awful, it inhibits mixing these factions with others.

**MysticWind** · July 14, 2005, 19:48

Thanks. I'm going to revise the New Athenians, the Parish of Planet, Nanotechnologists, and a few other ones soon.

Can you just make a list of the factions that look reasonably balanced?

**Senethro** · July 14, 2005, 20:38

Too many research factions in my opinion.

Some of the factions lack penalties.

**DarkCloud** · July 18, 2005, 09:41

Does anyone else share my opinion about The Elders of Chiron being really unbalanced, or is it just me...

Technology: Biogenetics
-2 Growth (It’s a colony of old people, for cryin’ out loud!)
+1 Probe (Vid game fanatics, the children of Counterstrike)
+1 Research (Have preserved substantial tech files following Arrival)
+1 Morale (You haven’t got much more to see after you hit 200… might as well fight)
Receives double votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader (Senior Citizens’ voting clout)

and I like the Planetary settlers and think that they (like many of your other factions) are a really innovative idea, but:

Technology: Centauri Ecology
+1 Planet (Willing to treat Planet well)
+2 Morale (Stalwart defenders of their outposts)
-1 Probe (Frontier cities easy to infiltrate)
-1 Economy (Rudimentary trading)

I would think that settlers- in needing to acquire supplies, would be good at trading... therefore the -1 economy doens't make sense...

Personally, I would knock the Morale down to +1 and add Support +1 to the units since they are semi-survivlaists and know what to do in the wilds... therefore they need good supply-lines.

Thus:

+1 Planet (Willing to treat Planet well)
+1 Morale (Stalwart defenders of their outposts)
+1 Supply (Good supply-lines)
-1 Probe (Frontier cities easy to infiltrate)
-1 Research (Time spent on Building/Surviving and using existing tech rather than new tech)

(I would also like to add a +1 Industry in there, but that would make the faction unbalanced toward being too powerful... maybe you can fix it up better?)

--
Good work!

**DarkCloud** · July 18, 2005, 11:55

And err... for the Senior Citizens faction-

Receives double votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader (Senior Citizens’ voting clout)

since you said you didn't want silliness or humor... Why would the fact that more senior citizens turn out to vote effect the amount of votes that the faction would have in the vote for supreme leader? The amount of votes is based on population and other factors... not "voting turnout" and other factors.

also

+1 Probe (Vid game fanatics, the children of Counterstrike)

... doesn't really seem like good enough justification for the +1 probe: I mean, if you're going the hacking route, I suppose the fact of long lifespans gives them more time to spend on trivial matters and to perfect algorithms used for technologies- but because they're old and set in their ways, they wouldn't be very adaptable to new techs.

and, for the Anti-Xenos faction:

-2 Planet (Anti-Planet viewed as Anti-Xenos)

I think you meant to say (Planet viewed as Anti-Xenos)

and for the FC's:

peace through war, unity through separation, control through freedom.”

are you certain you didn't mean to say "freedom through control"?

And for the Psi's:

Though to simply call us ‘mind-readers’ or ‘all-seers’ is overestimating our

... did you maybe mean 'underestimating?'
--
Personally, I slightly disagreewith Senethro- I think you have a reasonable amount of research factions- (though maybe you should nix Darwin's research bonus) ... but if you are interested in getting more variety, nix either the: Nanomachine Technologists or the Library of Planet. The two of them seem a bit redundant, especially if you add another Research+Planet oriented faction. Maybe you could replace one of them with the Libertarian one I designed in the other thread... or something else...
--
And- just a suggestion- when you change something, why don't you edit your changes into the first post so that later people don't repeat previous people's comments.
--
Sorry for the critical analysis...

**dmm1285** · July 18, 2005, 13:09

the Global Energy Exchange is WAYYYYY overpowered, +2 ECONOMY with no real negatives. Get rid of the support bonus, and throw in a growth and efiicency negative, and it MIGHT be all right

**MysticWind** · July 19, 2005, 14:51

Originally posted by DarkCloud
And err... for the Senior Citizens faction-

also ... doesn't really seem like good enough justification for the +1 probe: I mean, if you're going the hacking route, I suppose the fact of long lifespans gives them more time to spend on trivial matters and to perfect algorithms used for technologies- but because they're old and set in their ways, they wouldn't be very adaptable to new techs.

and, for the Anti-Xenos faction:

I think you meant to say (Planet viewed as Anti-Xenos)

and for the FC's:

are you certain you didn't mean to say "freedom through control"?

And for the Psi's:

... did you maybe mean 'underestimating?'
--
Personally, I slightly disagreewith Senethro- I think you have a reasonable amount of research factions- (though maybe you should nix Darwin's research bonus) ... but if you are interested in getting more variety, nix either the: Nanomachine Technologists or the Library of Planet. The two of them seem a bit redundant, especially if you add another Research+Planet oriented faction. Maybe you could replace one of them with the Libertarian one I designed in the other thread... or something else...

1. I might get rid of the probe bonus for the Elders of Chiron, and give it to the Raiders. The Raiders will then get rid of their research bonus.

2. No, I mean "(Anti-Planet viewed as Anti-Xenos)". Anti-Xenos means anti-alien. Planet (as an organism) is alien. Therefore, you have a faction that actually advocates anti-environmentalism.

3. Yeah, I meant "freedom through control".

4. No, I meant "overestimating." I want to stress that the Psions (which are actually just the faction's name for Empaths, Thinkers, Transcendi, etc.) are not true super-psychics, but still have considerable empathic (and psychic/psionic) skills. But they're not true mind-readers.

5. I'm going to try to make them more distinct. Story-wise, I don't like getting rid of any factions. Nanotech are meant to be kind of like the Hive, but more research based, slightly better economy, slightly less police state, and less militarily capable. Library is like a greenish, more pacifistic, more research-oriented Peacekeepers, with some sort of probe bonus but defense-oriented.

/rants about not enougth stats to play around with.

6. About the voting clout thing... I guess I'll get rid of it, but I still think it'd be a funny stat to give to senior citizens. And I did want to have it to make them more unique. There's never any voting bonuses in custm factions.

7. And no one noticed what their name sounds like? In Contact, Carl Sagan had a reference about a bunch of rich old people who live on a space station, where they supposedly live longer. Since a lot of them are former rulers, people on Earth dub them the "Elders of Ozone" (which in itself is a pun on the anti-Semitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion), or something like that.

I'm going to edit it sometime in the next two weeks.. I haven't done that yet.

**MysticWind** · July 21, 2005, 18:13

Okay, this is my heavily edited version of the factions. Changes are marked in italics, comments are bold.

Planetary Settlers
“Planet is not meant to be colonized by industrial methods that destroy the soil, pollute the air, and add nothing to the spirit of manifest destiny- carving out a new home with our own hands. Planet is meant to be settled.”
- Governor Michael Garrison, Settler’s Guide
“Settlers Ho!” -Rallying cry.
Symbol/Insignia: A miner’s pick and a frying pan crossing each other diagonally, and a state emblem-esque background with rolling hills, a river, and two suns in the sky.
Leader: Governor Michael Garrison
Background: Colonization leader of Antarctican Settling Program from United States of America
Agenda: Settling of Chiron with eco-friendly measures.
Technology: Centauri Ecology
+1 Planet (Willing to treat Planet well)
+1 Morale (Stalwart defenders of their outposts)
-1 Probe (Frontier cities easy to infiltrate)
-1 Economy (Strict environmentalism leads to certain sacrifices)
-1 Research (More focused on survival than sciences)

FC Magistrates
“Many times as I knelt in the trenches- huddling from fear, sobbing from loss, I wondered why we fought- did not both the United Nations and the International Federation of Countries want peace and unity? Still, as one by one my comrades died, as city by city fell, the purpose of our dark mission became clearer- peace through war, unity through separation, freedom through control.”
- FC Secretary General Mikhail Borokhov, Hell: The UN-FC War
Symbol/Insignia: A dove flying upwards holding a lightning bolt in its talons, with a big star in the background.
Leader: Secretary General Mikhail Borokhov
Background: SG of the Federated Countries on Earth from the Ukraine
Agenda: A democratic and allied confederation of factions devoted to the destruction of oppressors and warmongers.
Technology: Doctrine: Loyalty
+1 Support (Willing to sacrifice for peace)
+1 Efficiency (Cutthroat political maneuvering)
-2 Economy (Confederate machinations impede development)
-1 Growth (Anti-overpopulation measures favored)
Free Command Center at each base.
Free Prototypes
Gets an extra comm frequency at beginning (Masters of communications)
Aggression: Erratic Agenda: Power (Values)
Priorities: Build, Conquer Aversion: Police State (Politics)

Elders of Chiron
“See how quickly the young run, and soon forget us. Watch them build their crumbling playground empires, and scream and holler at each other and cry as they realize that they have no wisdom, no guidance, no comprehension. We once shamefully put our grandparents into nursing homes, and now fate comes to return the favor. Well, let us live independent forever or die trying!”
- Elder Avril Walker, Y Now, Y Forever
“Back in my day, we were so more 1337…”
Symbol/Insignia: An hour glass with the bottom completely full, yet the top 3/4ths full, too. In front of it are three helixes.
Leader: Elderess Avril Walker
Background: Chairwoman of UN Senior Rights Committee from Canada
Agenda: Community of age-enhanced seniors, free from youngsters. A gerontocracy.
Technology: Biogenetics
-2 Growth (It’s a colony of old people, for cryin’ out loud!)
+1 Probe (The cyberpunk generation: the children of Counterstrike)
+1 Research (Have preserved substantial tech files following Arrival)
+1 Morale (You haven’t got much more to see after you hit 200… might as well fight)
Receives double votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader (Senior Citizens’ voting clout)

Parish of Planet
“The Church of Rome has lasted two millennia. It has stood schism, heresy, invasion, pestilence, war, and scandal, and still remains a religious force to be reckoned with on Earth. Though we must admit that unfortunate mistakes have occurred, the Catholic Church of the 22nd century will be remembered as the peaceful light on Chiron.”
- Bishop Peter St. Clare, With the Grace of God
“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
- Matthew 16:18
Symbol/Insignia: The Latin cross in Europa Universalis (except the main part of the cross is exaggerated), with rosary beads in the shape of a fish behind it.
Leader: Bishop Peter St. Clare
Background: Archdeacon of St. Anselm’s Cathedral, Madrid from the Euro Union.
Agenda: Restoration of a compassionate Catholic Church on Planet against the Believer’s fanaticism.
Technology: None
+1 Efficiency (The New Vatican has been more quick to act)
+2 Growth (Still no contraceptives allowed)
-2 Support (All of the Crusaders have gone with Godwinson!)
+1 Police (But the Swiss Guard remains)
One bonus tech at beginning of game

Sons of Centauri-Ra
“As the clouds of WorOrthChuGa’s beloved Gaia burned and opened, the magnificent rays of Great Ra, Inti, Ametrasu, Helios heated the earth and the waters and humanity. Here, on another Earth, let us again give reverence to the life-giving warmth of our two Suns! Since before our fathers found fire, there was you.”
- High Priest Cuzco Sol, Light of Chiron
Symbol/Insignia: A simple sun (a circle surrounded by 8 triangles like a compass rose) with Ra’s eye in it. Next to it is a tinier sun with a regular eye.
Leader: High Priest Cuzco Sol
Background: Temple Leader of Sons of Ra shrine Apollo’s Throne, Khartoum, originally from Guatemala.
Agenda: Changing Planet’s atmosphere into one that matches pre-Arrival Earth, in order to preserve the worship of Ra.
Technology: ?
-1 Planet (efforts to make Planet more Earth-like: steeped in greenhouse gases)
+1 Economy (Centaurian Solar Energy Retrieval = Big Money)
-1 Growth (Exposure in Sun Worship has its costs)
+2 Morale (Revival of testosterone-laden war in conjunction with worship)
Free energy banks at each base.

Darwin Raiders
“The hyper-survivalist militias of old Earth were wrong. Humanity had not fallen, nor were we in a decline. What was truly at stake was stagnation- should we be content forever to live sedentary, innocent-bystander lives? Perhaps the masses can, but we shall not. In the wilds we will live, taking what we need from the complacent, until their cities fall, their civilizations break, and our nucleus of humanity survives.”
- Chieftain Robin Huxley, The Tartars of Tomorrow
Leader: Chieftain Robin Huxley
Background: Former anti-militia tank commander, United Kingdom
Agenda: Preservation of smartest and strongest in a nomadic lifestyle to one day restart civilization with.
Technology: Doctrine: Mobility
+2 Support (Bases geared towards military preparedness)
+1 Morale (Military strength for raiding attacks)
+1 Probe (Adept at stealing technology)
Starts with free unit: Unity Speeder
Need Hab Complex for bases to exceed size 3 (Against sedentary lives)
Can steal a technology when capturing a base.
15% Chance of revolting bases joining faction
I removed the +1 Research. Also, note the drastic base limitations

--
The second set is based on several years after the Arrival. Factions broke into smaller factions.

Anti-Xenos Initiative Society
“After the arrival at Chiron, humanity has become degraded by alien forces. Today, the vile ‘Voice of Planet’ calls out lies that mislead our citizens to their deaths, psychics hide within us, reading our thoughts, sentient Xenos lay waste to our land for their own agendas, and our own machines have learned to rebel. The time to fight back and resist temptation is now!”
- AXIS Manifesto, Datalinks
“I suggest you take this time and prepare to meet your Gaia.”
- General Gray, shortly before launching a Planet Buster against a Cult of Planet colony.
Symbol/Insignia: A medieval shield that has a picture of mindworms on it, except crossed out.
Leader: General Patrick Donovan Gray
Background: Former Spartan Fed general from Billings, claimed by United States of America, under control of Militia Free State.
Agenda: Destruction of all alien factions and philosophies.
Technology: High Energy Chemistry
+2 Support (Military-oriented society)
+2 Police (Citizens used to discipline and order)
-2 Planet (Anti-Planet viewed as Anti-Xenos)
Fanatic (‘Nuff said)
Techcost 120% (Unwilling to make "Faustian Bargains")
Fine, you all win. I removed the planet buster free unit.
Aggression: Aggressive Agenda: Fundamentalist (Politics)
Priorities: Conquer Aversion: Green (Economics)

Psions for Purity
“The gift of Psi is not without its curses. Though to simply call us ‘mind-readers’ or ‘all-seers’ is overestimating our gifs, we Psions- Empaths, Thinkers, Transcendi,- are fully capable of feeling your emotions and predicting your thoughts. However, with the degeneration of morality that increases even today, on another planet far from Earth, we may choose not to.
- First Speaker Theresa Corelli, A Psionic Society
“Get your dirty thoughts away from me!”
Symbol/Insignia: One of those SMAC silhouettes of a guys’ head, with the Eudemonia symbol in the head spot.
Leader: First Speaker Theresa Corelli
Background: Former University Thinker from Mediterranean States
Agenda: Society for Psions free of moral decay.
Technology: Secrets of the Human Brain
+1 Efficiency (No need for bureaucracy in psychic society)
+1 Probe (Psionic Spies!)
-2 Industry (Thinkers, not workers)
Extra Talent for every three citizens (Psionic society)
+25% Psi combat boost
Immune to mind control
Fanatic (Shall protect society at all costs from “savages”)
I removed the +2 Support. Should I have kept it?
Aggression: Pacifist Agenda: Democratic (Politics)
Priorities: Build, Discover Aversion: Wealth (Values)

New Athenians
“Come, you bourgeois, you neo-aristocrats, you patrons of ‘High Art!’ As we build a new Planet for human beings, why can’t it be a glittering, democratic, fashionable one? Why can’t it be one for the wealthy?”
- Patrician Seneca Alexius, The First Metropolis
“Psion Centropolis? Morgan Vegas? Pretenders to our throne!”
Symbol/Insignia: A Greek-type Parthenon on top of a thick pedestal. Slightly visible inside the building is a figure holding up its arms, celebrating a light that comes from within. Underneath the pedestal is “NEO”, in highly-stylized lettering. The letters look like Aurabesh from Star Wars, since they are a bit jagged and do not connect.
Leader: Patrician Seneca Alexius
Background: Chief municipal architect of Peacekeepers, from the Euro Union.
Agenda: Creation of perfect cities of art, social justice, and wealth.
Technology: Ethical Calculus
+1 Growth (fecund, prosperous citizens)
+1 Industry (the rich fund city projects)
-2 Support (Ditto)
-2 Research (Foppery and dandying more important)
-1 Efficiency (cities tend to favor quality over quantity)
Extra talent for every two citizens. (Cultural centers)
Commerce
Free Rec Commons at each base.

Nanomachine Technologists
“Science and industry go hand in hand, reshaping all societies with benefits and breakthroughs. But it is not sufficient to simply build and discover in the interest of pure research, nor to rely on technological progress for wealth. Instead, the sciences of the physical should combine with the social to create an order based on merit and capability. With these specks of dust, gentlemen, I intend to do just that.”
- Director-in-Chief Sylvia Gauss, Pronouncement of the Technate
“Nano, nano!” -Catchphrase of the alien Bork, The Bork and Binnie Show
Leader: Director-in-Chief Sylvia Gauss
Background: Chairwoman of Drexler Tech, former University engineer, FCS Sovereignty survivor from Switzerland.
Agenda: Creation of a pure technocracy with the help of nanotechnology.
Technology: Advanced Subatomic Theory
+1 Industry (Nanotech yields great profits)
-1 Planet (Grey goo has not been adjusted for fighting pollution just yet)
-2 Growth (Strict pragmatism of society impedes growth rate)
+2 Police (Society sponsors lawmen to weed out drones)
+2 Free research points per base per turn (Science considered the cornerstone of society)
Penalty, Research (Efforts to set up a true technocracy comes at a great cost)
Well, I got rid of the straightforward +1 Research bonus, and made choosing the research value both a curse and a blessing...

Library of Planet
“The first craft of humanity to arrive on Chiron, the UNS Unity, could not fight against the forces of distrust and discord, shattering into seven factions even before Planetfall. As history shows, the rise and fall of peace and war cause further balkanizations, and the subsequent divisions thus made five more. Then came the warring Progenitors, the sorrowful FCS Sovereignty, and today revolutions and countless discoveries of intelligent aliens continue. How many more factions will tomorrow bring? How much longer will we remain divided?”
- Oracle Gennaro Almeida, A House Crumbled: Geopolitics of Planet
Leader: Oracle Gennaro Almeida
Background: Chief archivist aboard Sovereignty, from Brazil.
Agenda: Preservation of human knowledge, peaceful unification of Chiron.
Technology: Planetary networks, Social Psych
+2 Probe (Formidable library network defenses)
-1 Morale (Scholars uninterested in warfare)
-1 Industry (Integration of Planet sought before industrialization)
Techcost 85%(Considerable knowledge kept)
Extra talent for every three citizens (Learning centers)
Gets an extra comm frequency at beginning (Diplomatically-minded)
Can't accuse me of making them a straightforward research faction. I also stressed their diplo-leanings.

**Chaos Theory** · July 21, 2005, 18:21

Originally posted by MysticWind
Okay, this is my heavily edited version of the factions. Changes are marked in italics, comments are bold.

[...]

Nanomachine Technologists
“Science and industry go hand in hand, reshaping all societies with benefits and breakthroughs. But it is not sufficient to simply build and discover in the interest of pure research, nor to rely on technological progress for wealth. Instead, the sciences of the physical should combine with the social to create an order based on merit and capability. With these specks of dust, gentlemen, I intend to do just that.”
- Director-in-Chief Sylvia Gauss, Pronouncement of the Technate
“Nano, nano!” -Catchphrase of the alien Bork, The Bork and Binnie Show
Leader: Director-in-Chief Sylvia Gauss
Background: Chairwoman of Drexler Tech, former University engineer, FCS Sovereignty survivor from Switzerland.
Agenda: Creation of a pure technocracy with the help of nanotechnology.
Technology: Advanced Subatomic Theory
+2 Industry (Nanotech yields great profits)
-1 Planet (Grey goo has not been adjusted for fighting pollution just yet)
+2 Police (Society sponsors lawmen to weed out drones)
10 Free research points per base per turn (Science considered the cornerstone of society)
Penalty, Research (Efforts to set up a true technocracy comes at a great cost)
Well, I got rid of the straightforward +1 Research bonus, and made choosing the research value both a curse and a blessing...

10 research per base?! And you improved their industry rating to Domai-caliber?! If you mean Penalty, Knowledge, that means almost nothing, since -2 is as low as Probe goes. You made this faction massively overpowered, since they have nutrients (through Police), minerals (through Industry), and energy (through +10 research/base) all covered, without meaningful penalties.

**MysticWind** · July 21, 2005, 19:54

I knew I would run into problems here.

What would be a fair but not excessive number of free points per turn for:

* research

* energy credits

* whatever else is tweakable?

Also, fine, I'll lower the industry down to +1. And I'll find another token PENALTY to use as a penalty. I can also lower efficiency, since it can fit in story-wise.

**Chaos Theory** · July 21, 2005, 20:04

Any amount of +research/base is going to mean more in the early game than the late game. Even +1/base will mean a substantial advantage over 40-60 years, after which it'll still be helpful, but won't mean much compared to what you've already gotten out of it. +10 is absurd since even the best bases early on only pump out 5 labs (6 with +2 research). Give a faction as much as +3 research/turn, and they'll out-tech the Uni, absent significant disadvantages.

It's okay to give them +2 industry, as long as they have a substantial penalty. Look at what Yang and Domai pay for their industrial advantages. If this faction is also supposed to be good at research (which neither Yang nor Domai are), it needs to suffer severely at founding bases and/or making large bases. Don't look for *token* penalties - give meaningful penalties! -1 Planet is trivial since when attacking, -10%, even in psi combat, doesn't change many battles, at least on land. Green still results in a positive Planet rating and the ability to capture worms. The extra pollution is actually helpful.

AFAIK, you can give only zero or one ECs/base/turn, with the absence or presence of the INTEREST, 0 ability.

**Flubber** · July 22, 2005, 12:54

I agree with chaos. ten research points a base is super high. It encourages an early ICS as well. I'm just imagining many turns early where this faction is getting a tech a turn, get to crawlers ridiculously early and go from there

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