Rebalancing the factions with standard SMAX rules

[#endgame]

Possibly better:
+PROBE and free CovOps centre at game start (even before PSA)

[Senethro]

Heh, that would be good. I can already think of an exploit in that situation, imagine how good probe team defenders would be because of the high morale.

[GeoModder]

Early probes are better on the offensive then.

[Maniac]

How about giving the Angels "immunity to mind control", and for the rest leaving all their probe boni the same? (Only mind control cost is affected by the probe rollover bug, not the extra probe team morale.)

[GeoModder]

That's an idea... and the more so for in the early game there's not a single faction that can bring up the energy to mindprobe units/bases anyway.

[Senethro]

Geomodder: Except the Angels themselves. I've had some nice probe team rushes as the Angels. Just pop a 150ec pod then stumble across a size 1 base or a colony pod. Sham bam bamina, its yours.

[GeoModder]

Hey, you're the Angels for something eh?

[Husky325]

I made several changes to the original factions to make them a little better

Beleivers: Free Rec Commons
After all, the first thing these guys are going to build is a church, which in these games reduces the number of malcontented citizens

Hive: +1 Police ( as well as Immunity : Efficency)
Now Yang can have maximum Police right from the start (He starts with Doc:Loyalty which gives him Police State)

Gaians :
+1 Nutrients,Minerals and Energy in fungus
(not just Nutrients)

Morgan: I made the most changes here

* Increased the population cap from 4 to 5. Now they will be level with the others with Ascetic Virtues
* Changed ideal from Free markrt to Wealth -- Free Market is bad for Morgan, as he only needs Weath to get up to a +2 Econ
* +1 Industry and -1 Planet : After all this is a Industrial conglomerate that doesn't care for the envirornment

Spartans:
+1 Support
Immunity : Power

Peacekeepers:
Immunity : Democracy

University: Gave them Biogenetics and can choose yet another tech


Was thinking of changing Fundy to have negatives of
-1 Research and -1 Economy (less $ from 'sin' activity)

-1 Morale for PKs (I mean, these are UN troops)


I heard others talking about the Cult -- If it is weak (dunno never played them) they can be helped by
Free Brood Pit in each base at start
+2 (Nutrients, Minerals & Energy) in Fungus
(or maybe +2,+1,+1 or +2,+1,+2)

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by Husky325
I made several changes to the original factions to make them a little better

Beleivers: Free Rec Commons
After all, the first thing these guys are going to build is a church, which in these games reduces the number of malcontented citizens

This makes the Believers very potent, and probably stronger than any of the SMAX factions except maybe the Drones

Hive: +1 Police ( as well as Immunity : Efficency)
Now Yang can have maximum Police right from the start (He starts with Doc:Loyalty which gives him Police State)

The Hive is very strong already and doesn't need doubled police effects.

Gaians :
+1 Nutrients,Minerals and Energy in fungus
(not just Nutrients)

The Gaians are a good faction, and this is very likely too much, but it's worth a try.

Morgan: I made the most changes here

* Increased the population cap from 4 to 5. Now they will be level with the others with Ascetic Virtues
* Changed ideal from Free markrt to Wealth -- Free Market is bad for Morgan, as he only needs Weath to get up to a +2 Econ
* +1 Industry and -1 Planet : After all this is a Industrial conglomerate that doesn't care for the envirornment

Might be a good idea, but there are those who claim Morgan is quite strong as a builder already.

Spartans:
+1 Support
Immunity : Power

The Spartans definitely need help to be on par with the other factions.

Peacekeepers:
Immunity : Democracy

The PKs are quite good already, and effectively granting them +2 support makes them very strong indeed.

University: Gave them Biogenetics and can choose yet another tech

The Uni does not need any help at all. Even among the SMAX factions it is very strong.

Was thinking of changing Fundy to have negatives of
-1 Research and -1 Economy (less $ from 'sin' activity)

-1 Morale for PKs (I mean, these are UN troops)

Do you mean you want Fundy to grant -1 Morale just to the Peacekeepers? You can't implement that.

I heard others talking about the Cult -- If it is weak (dunno never played them) they can be helped by
Free Brood Pit in each base at start
+2 (Nutrients, Minerals & Energy) in Fungus
(or maybe +2,+1,+1 or +2,+1,+2)

[/quote]

Having every fungus tile act as a monolith (or better after restriction lifting) would make for a ludicrously broken faction. Other than that, how do you plan to distinguish them from the Gaians?

[Senethro]

The problem is I think some of those suggestions make the factions more "generic". I think the Spartans are more about elite warriors than hordes of warriors and so I'd be cautious about giving them support. It would also make them a bit too similar to the Believers. Impunity Power is spot on though. I'd even consider moving Value: Power to Adaptive Doctrine or similar as its ridiculous how late you get power compared to wealth.

Impunity Democracy would make the PKs just a bit strong in the early game. Perhaps "robust support" would be more appropriate, giving them the 10 free minerals per base but only one supported unit.

[Chaos Theory]

I'd say the Spartans could benefit from some extra support while retaining their flavor because, as it stands, it is difficult to use the Spartans' higher police rating while also fielding an army, since using all of +1 Police requires two garrison units, which also chew up all of the free support. Adding +1 support would allow the Spartans to either field a larger army for the same support costs (although higher initial costs), or have more garrisons than other factions.

[Husky325]

Do you mean you want Fundy to grant -1 Morale just to the Peacekeepers? You can't implement that.

Sorry, I meant that the PK should have -1 Morale as one of thier default features (not having anything to do with Fundy) and Fundy should be changed to
+Morale, ++Probe, -Research, -Econ

I am trying to make the original factions more competive with the new ones, while maintaining balance and faction character

The Uni does not need any help at all. Even among the SMAX factions it is very strong.

I haven't tried Uni in SMAX, if they are strong, they should be left the same

The PKs are quite good already, and effectively granting them +2 support makes them very strong indeed.

Agreed, also thinking of giving PKs -1 Morale (as I mentioned these are UN troops and pacifists)


As for the Cult, How about
+2 Planet
-1 Ind
-1 Economy
Free Brood Bit at start
+2 Nutrients in fungus
start with 1 mindworm unit

Again, I haven't played the Cult, this is just an idea. I thought they were supposed to be an radical offshoot of the Gaians

[Senethro]

-1 econ is probably equivalent to -1 research in that it disables the benefits of wealth.

Most of the PKs problems occur in the early game. I don't think it would be a good idea to throw in a morale penalty as well, especially when they can make one for themselves with wealth easily.


My own tweaked version of the cult was regular cult and +1 police, +1 mins and energy in fungus giving 1/1/1 with centauri ecology and brood pits moved to an earlier tech.

derail: brood pits would be awesome if they arrived in the time of High Freemarket, were cheaper in minrows, offered some base defense vs psi, and in an alpha.txt in which psi units were at 66% of current cost.

Even if they just arrived earlier a free marketeer with +1 police another way from a different source could use them as a mini-punishment sphere to allow units to leave territory.

[johndmuller]

It seems to me that nearly all of the factions are playable enough for decent players in PBEM/MP. That is to say, that while the computer plays only a few factions well, a good human player can make a go out of it with most of them. A really good player, like Buster or Flubber, or ______, could probably let you pick their faction for them and still beat you.

Different people bring out different aspects of the factions; that's one of the things that make this such a good game.

Each of us has factions that are more and less suitable to our natural styles of play; that does not mean that another will have the same favorites and rather-nots. The computer, of course, has markedly better luck with Yang than with Santi, while human players fare much better (althouth she is not a real big favorite with most humans either).

Of course, in any form of MP, diplomacy is arguably more important than the various faction attributes, and some of the seemingly less desirable factions make quite desirable allies.

It seems to me that Sister M is the one faction that is rarely requested in PBEMs; that might make her a good candidate for a facelift, but perhaps that is just my own style hangup; the Believers do lend themselves to certain styles of play - particularly early aggression and heavy probing - quite well.

[#endgame]

I'd say the 3 that need beefing:

Miriam
Santiago
Cha Dawn/Chewed On/Chow Down