Opinions sought on a SMAC conversion mod

[fluxionman]

Originally posted by #endgame
I'd advise against removing them, since you really need a regulator against any aquatic factions or early expansion. I can't think of a story based explanaation though.

The scenario setup eliminates somewhat the need for non-faction naval units. There will be starting locations for each faction - 3 to 5 cities for each, with small populations. Colonization will be difficult, however, and will require larger investments of time and resources. Think about it - the bases in SMAC are small and self-contained environments, and population units in the game represent 10,000 people (IIRC). Under this mod, 1 population = 1 million people. It will be a greater commitment to displace a million people to a new site to start a city. Also, while most factions will begin with a set number of "legacy" naval units, the technologies to build new units will not be immediately available. And, since the game will start with the map known (big surprise), exploration will not be a large part of naval operations. There won't be any "aquatic" factions like the Pirates to worry about, either.

So perhaps I can do without IoDs or the equivalent.

[GeoModder]

Have you found in which file it is that the game states that 1 population = 10000 people? Hadn't had luck with that...

[Chaos Theory]

When you obliterate a base, it tells you how many people were put to death. The number is always 10000 * base size.

[GeoModder]

Yes, I know that. What I don't know is in what file this number 10000 is put so it can be adapted for modding purposes. I think that it is a label forwarded from one of the text files, but can't find it.

[Chaos Theory]

In script.txt

#OBLITTED
#xs 440
#caption Operations Director
$BASENAME0 has been obliterated, $TITLE1.
$NUM0,000 $&lt[b][/b]M1:$FACTIONADJ2&gt citizens were put to death.

#OBLITTED2
#xs 440
#caption Operations Director
$TITLE3 $NAME4 has ordered the obliteration of $BASENAME0, $TITLE1!
$NUM0,000 $&lt[b][/b]M1:$FACTIONADJ2&gt citizens were put to death!

[livid imp]

I think it is a great idea. Kinda sounds like a Cyber-Punk scenario.....hmmm, a Cyber-Punk scenario .

It sounds like you want to make expansion more costly too. That is something I had been thinking about doing. Make cities a real commodity. I always thought colony pods were too cheap. If colony pods represented a large investment of resources, it would make military factions more attractive, and at the same time make gas less attractive. Capturing (rather than destroying) a city could give the advantage in a game where player can't just spam out the colony pods. Unfortunately I have not tested this hypothesis yet, so I don't know if it will actually work out that way.

Btw: Nice avatar

[fluxionman]

Originally posted by livid imp
I think it is a great idea. Kinda sounds like a Cyber-Punk scenario.....hmmm, a Cyber-Punk scenario .

It has a sort of post-apocalyptic feel, true. At the start of the scenario, the world is crumbling - broken buildings, people scratching a living out of the dusty soil, imperialist warlords hiding in barded-wire-encircled compounds, run-down warships rusting at sea because no one knows how to fix them, etc.

It sounds like you want to make expansion more costly too. That is something I had been thinking about doing. Make cities a real commodity. I always thought colony pods were too cheap. If colony pods represented a large investment of resources, it would make military factions more attractive, and at the same time make gas less attractive. Capturing (rather than destroying) a city could give the advantage in a game where player can't just spam out the colony pods. Unfortunately I have not tested this hypothesis yet, so I don't know if it will actually work out that way.

I agreed completely. I find building and taking bases in SMAC to be too easy. Because the scale of cities is at least two degrees of magnitude higher than AC bases, the investment to build them should be at least 100 times as high. Cities should also be more difficult to capture; from Stalingrad to Baghdad, modern armies have learned that urban combat is some of the ugliest fighting imaginable.

Btw: Nice avatar

Aw, I bet you say that to all the surly drones.

[fluxionman]

For those following the thread, here are my (tentative) factions:

• Pan-Asiatic Alliance ("Pan-Asia")
  Leader: Chairman Xin Lu-Zhao
  Government Type: Capitalist Oligarchy
  Bases: Shanghai, Bangkok, Tokyo, Jakarta, Manilla
  Goal: Economic domination
  
• The Europa Coalition ("Europa")
  Leader: Prime Minister Erich Van Groen
  Government Type: Parliamentary Technocracy
  Bases: Berlin, Paris, Rome
  Goal: Technological superiority
  
• The Russo-Slavic Peoples' Union ("People's Union")
  Leader: Comrade Katyusha Zaneta
  Government Type: Industrial Socialism
  Bases: Moscow, Warsaw, Prague, Istanbul
  Goal: Industrial power
  
• The Golden Empire ("The Empire")
  Leader: Great King Mboto Ngo
  Government Type: Absolute Monarchy
  Bases: Lagos, Kinshasa, Cairo, Johannesburg
  Goal: Military conquest
  
• The Federated States of NovAmerica ("NovAmerica")
  Leader: Reverend Lehi Samuelson
  Government Type: Fundamentalist Theocracy
  Bases: Salt Lake City, Houston, Seattle, New York
  Goal: Ideological crusade
  
• Free Amazonia ("Amazonia")
  Leader: President Rafaela Goncallvez
  Government Type: Democracy
  Bases: Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Caracas
  Goal: Social equity
  
• Native People's Front ("NPF")
  Leader: Chieftain Daniel Grey Wolf
  Government Type: Tribal Commune
  Bases: No fixed starting location (colony pods)
  Goal: Global revolution and overthrow of factional powers

[Chaos Theory]

Here's a first shot at the social modifications for those factions:

Pan-Asiatic:
+1 Econ (booming economy fueled by large populations)
+3 hab limits (accustomed to crowding)
-1 Effic (bureaucracy at its finest)
-1 Probe (bureaucracy at its finest)
Nodrone 1 (ascetic values)
110% Tech cost (focus on the past)
Cannot choose Democracy

Europa:
+2 Research (intellectual elite)
-2 Growth (aging, stagnant population)
Free bio lab in each base (entrenched collegiate culture)
Free perimeter defense in each base (ancient cities riddled with tunnels; narrow and deadly streets)
-1 Industry (short working hours)
-1 Support (small working population)
Cannot choose Fundamentalist

Russo-Slavic:
+1 Industry (underpaid, desperate workers)
+2 Support (people's army)
+2 Police (pervasive military presence)
+1 Planet (socialism appeals to the insurgents)
-1 Economy (underpaid workers)
-1 Morale (ragtag military)
-2 Probe (bribery is straightforward and commonplace)
Robust Power
Cannot choose Free Market

Golden Empire:
+2 Morale (carefully coordinated military)
+1 Support (conscription)
Hurry costs 75% (forced labor)
-1 Effic (centralized government)
-2 Planet (particular target of insurgency)
Penalty Democracy (an illusion of democracy is difficult to preserve)

Federated States of NovAmerica
+1 Morale (crusaders)
+1 Planet (religion appeals to the insurgents)
140% tech cost (repels intellectual elite)
Robust Research (American fundamentalism tolerates science)
Free Ability Polymorphic Encryption
Extra Talent for every 3 population (some gain a sense of meaning and purpose)
Extra Drone for every 7 population (some are brutally oppressed)
-1 Talent (some are brutally oppressed)
Cannot choose Knowledge

Free Amazonia:
+1 Growth (full of youth, emphasis on large families)
+2 Planet (Democracy appeals strongly to insurgents)
+2 Effic (more evenly distributed wealth)
+1 commerce (experience from drug cartels)
-1 Police (anarchistic tendencies)
Defense 80% (lack of unified defense)
Cannot choose Wealth

Native People's Front
+3 Planet (excellent rapport with insurgents)
Sharetech 3 (sympathizers in every faction)
Enhanced policing from insurgents ("worm police")
400% tech cost (impossible to do research without advanced facilities)
+6 Effic (ability to organize widely distributed bases)
-2 Econ (no single currency, tendency towards barter economy)
Immunity to mind control (impossible to subvert tightly-knit communities)
-2 Morale (lack of advanced weaponry)
Cannot choose Planned

[livid imp]

hmmm

[livid imp]

fluxionman,

I generally like the factions. Though the whole Russian-Communism-Industrial power thing is rather cliche anymore. Africa maybe the next emerging industrial power if they ever get well organized (as SMAC predicted with the Morganite faction).

[#endgame]

Careful you don't run over the limit of faction mods.

[Chaos Theory]

I kept that in mind the whole time. There are three categories of social modifications:

Aversion to SE, limit 1 (as far as I know)
"Faction" options, limit 8
"Rule" options, limit unknown

I think I fell within all the constraints.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
In script.txt

#OBLITTED
#xs 440
#caption Operations Director
$BASENAME0 has been obliterated, $TITLE1.
$NUM0,000 $&lt[b][/b]M1:$FACTIONADJ2&gt citizens were put to death.

#OBLITTED2
#xs 440
#caption Operations Director
$TITLE3 $NAME4 has ordered the obliteration of $BASENAME0, $TITLE1!
$NUM0,000 $&lt[b][/b]M1:$FACTIONADJ2&gt citizens were put to death!

Finally I know where to look for it!! Thanks!!!

[fluxionman]

Wow. Some very good suggestions here, many I hadn't considered.

I should probably preface my message with an explanation of the new SE choices - I plan to redo them in the following manner:

• Government
  Autocracy (default): --Social (Planet), --Efficiency, +Infrastructure (Research), +Support
  Parliamentary: -Social, ++Infrastructure, -Efficiency
  Democracy: ++Growth, +Efficiency, -Support
  Socialist State: +Social, ++Efficiency, -Infrastructure, -Support, +Growth

“Fundamentalist” isn’t really a government type, so I moved it to Values (“Integrity”, a concern for right and wrong) and made Government a spectrum ranging from completely centralized control (Autocracy) to completely de-centralized control (Socialism). Social (Planet) and Efficiency increase as government de-centralizes, but Infrastructure (Research) and Support decrease due to the need for redundancy in more open governments. The choice comes down to balancing the government’s will versus the population’s.

“Tech” no longer represents purely scientific exploration, but also social, fiscal, and political Advances, such as Agenda:Community and Policy:Free Trade; thus, Research becomes Infrastructure - the capability of a faction to explore new avenues of enterprise.

• Economy
  Simple (default)
  Free Market: +Economy, +Industry, ----Social
  Regulated: +Support, -Efficiency
  Planned: -1 Economy, ++Industry, --Efficiency, +Social, ++Support

Economy is now also more of a spectrum, from wide-open Free Market to the tightly-controlled Planned, with Regulated in the middle as a balance between the two. Planned economy emphasizes Industry over commerce and provides for more Support, but is more wasteful.

• Values
  Liberty (default): --Intel (Probe), -Order (Police)
  Security: ++Morale, +Intel, +Order, --Growth, -Social
  Integrity: +Intel, +Morale, ++Order, --Social
  Equality: --Order, +Social, +Growth, -Morale, -Intel

Another spectrum, with Security on one end and Equality on the other. (Liberty, the default, would actually fall between Integrity and Equality.) Obviously, as concern for controlling people’s behavior increases (Integrity, Security), they are less happy (-Growth and -Social), but you get better military (+Morale and +Intel).

• Future
  None (default)
  Technocracy: ++Infrastructure, +Efficiency, -Support
  Utopia: +Social, +Growth, +Economy, --Support, -Infrastructure, --Morale
  Totalitarianism: +Morale, +Intel, ++Order, ---Social, +Infrastructure

These correspond roughly to Cybernetic, Eudaimonia, and Thought Control.

Now, to your suggestions:

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Here's a first shot at the social modifications for those factions:

Pan-Asiatic:
+1 Econ (booming economy fueled by large populations)
+3 hab limits (accustomed to crowding)
-1 Effic (bureaucracy at its finest)
-1 Probe (bureaucracy at its finest)
Nodrone 1 (ascetic values)
110% Tech cost (focus on the past)
Cannot choose Democracy

I was thinking that an Asian faction could go one of two ways - high-tech, low growth (Japanese), or low-tech, high growth (Chinese). You’ve chosen the latter option.

Europa:
+2 Research (intellectual elite)
-2 Growth (aging, stagnant population)
Free bio lab in each base (entrenched collegiate culture)
Free perimeter defense in each base (ancient cities riddled with tunnels; narrow and deadly streets)
-1 Industry (short working hours)
-1 Support (small working population)
Cannot choose Fundamentalist

I like your ideas for Europa. They are the “research” faction (a la University).

Russo-Slavic:
+1 Industry (underpaid, desperate workers)
+2 Support (people's army)
+2 Police (pervasive military presence)
+1 Planet (socialism appeals to the insurgents)
-1 Economy (underpaid workers)
-1 Morale (ragtag military)
-2 Probe (bribery is straightforward and commonplace)
Robust Power
Cannot choose Free Market

I went with a pseudo-Soviet Russian faction because I figured that, following a global economic/technological collapse, they would fall back on the system that saved them the last time they faced a similar crisis. This socialist state focuses less on military an more on pure industrial output (a la Drones) and I think you’ve captured that spirit in your modifiers.

Golden Empire:
+2 Morale (carefully coordinated military)
+1 Support (conscription)
Hurry costs 75% (forced labor)
-1 Effic (centralized government)
-2 Planet (particular target of insurgency)
Penalty Democracy (an illusion of democracy is difficult to preserve)

It would suck to live in Africa in this scenario - it’s basically one large fiefdom. I intend to implant widespread resource squares through Africa to give the Empire the best unit-producing capability of all the factions. They’ll need troops to suppress all the uprisings they’ll experience, because they’ll also have the highest concentration of sprawl.

Federated States of NovAmerica
+1 Morale (crusaders)
+1 Planet (religion appeals to the insurgents)
140% tech cost (repels intellectual elite)
Robust Research (American fundamentalism tolerates science)
Free Ability Polymorphic Encryption
Extra Talent for every 3 population (some gain a sense of meaning and purpose)
Extra Drone for every 7 population (some are brutally oppressed)
-1 Talent (some are brutally oppressed)
Cannot choose Knowledge

NovAmerica will start with the best “legacy” military, but their rate of developing advances will be terrible, thanks to their regression into a religious state and shunning technology and learning. I don’t know about the higher research costs vs. robust research, though. And I don’t know if they’d be any more socially appealing than the rest (+1 Planet). I’ll have to think about that.

Free Amazonia:
+1 Growth (full of youth, emphasis on large families)
+2 Planet (Democracy appeals strongly to insurgents)
+2 Effic (more evenly distributed wealth)
+1 commerce (experience from drug cartels)
-1 Police (anarchistic tendencies)
Defense 80% (lack of unified defense)
Cannot choose Wealth

Amazonia will have its hands full feeding its growing population. Their weakness will be a bad military, but the ability to use insurgents might counteract that.

Native People's Front
+3 Planet (excellent rapport with insurgents)
Sharetech 3 (sympathizers in every faction)
Enhanced policing from insurgents ("worm police")
400% tech cost (impossible to do research without advanced facilities)
+6 Effic (ability to organize widely distributed bases)
-2 Econ (no single currency, tendency towards barter economy)
Immunity to mind control (impossible to subvert tightly-knit communities)
-2 Morale (lack of advanced weaponry)
Cannot choose Planned

This is the trickiest faction to design, because their bases will be the most widely spread. They might have one on each continent at any given time. Their industrial output and economy will be pitiful, but the ability to use insurgents should make up for that. I’m trying to determine how to set them up so that the other six faction can’t simply eliminate them first before turning on each other.

Lots of good suggestions here. Lots to think about.