Help Rigging Might Formula?

[Helium Pond]

Over in AC-General, Mitosu rigged a scenario which had the AI playing unusually well: it built huge squads of choppers, it terraformed, it built (and used) probe foils. Also, because of the way the scenario was set up, the AI was far superior to the human player on the might chart. We've been speculating that the AI may play better when it believes it has a huge lead. Does anyone know if it's possible to rig the might formula? In other words, is there some way to make the AI believe it's winning no matter what (and hopefully make it play better as a result?)

I can think of ways to edit the faction files, but that would require changing the files each time you wanted to play a different faction, which sucks. Is there any way to make the game give extra might points only to the AI players? Are there parts of the alpha.txt that recognize human and non-human factions differently?
[This message has been edited by Helium Pond (edited August 15, 2000).]

[Helium Pond]

Hm. This forum's pretty dead, huh? Oh well, I'll reply to my own message.

So, here's what I've tried. I modified one of the user-defined techs. I called it Might Enhancement Tech, gave it values of 100, 100, 100, and 100, and made it researchable without any prerequisites. I figured, with those values, it'll be the first thing every AI researches. Then all I have to do is just *not* research it, and the might graph will be properly skewed for the whole game. Unfortunately, I forgot about pods. I went and popped a pod, and got given the might enhancement tech right off.

So, one option would be to never pop pods, which some people advocate anyway, as pod-popping gives the human player a big advantage. That's an option. One thing I wasn't sure of, though: would the game eventually force me to research the might-enhancement tech, even though it wasn't a prerequisite for anything? I didn't play long enough to find out. Plus, you could get given the might-enhancement tech any number of other ways, such as taking over a base.

So I decided to create a second tech, called Might Negation Tech, valued at -100, -100, -100, -100. I figured, with those values, the AI will never research it on its own, right? And the human player can use it to negate the effects of the might enhancement. Well, in the couple test games I started, it didn't quite work that way. For some reason, Zak seemed to research it, and so did Lal. I'm not sure if they got it from pods or just from their own research efforts.

But I did verify that this approach has the desired effect on the might graph: factions with the enhancement had their might shoot right to the top of the chart. Whether or not that made the AI play better, I didn't play long enough to test. I don't really have the time to test that right now. And the might negation tech did work to cancel out the effects of the might enhancement.

So, does anyone have any suggestions as to how to modify this approach? Is there some way to create a tech that the AI will *never* research? Or, conversely, make a tech that the human player can never get? Any ideas?

[Jasonian]

Make one of the prerequities for Might Negation Trancend Thought, and then add it as a free tech in the faction file you want to play.

That should to the trick, although you'd have to change it each time you want to pick a new faction.

[Misotu]

Hi Helium Pond

I'm currently playtesting a modified version of the scenario to see if the balance is better and what effect that'll have on the AI. It's slow going at the moment - I have a new PC which seems to experience the terranx crash more regularly than my other did

Your idea sounds interesting. My only difficulty with it is that I play a lot of PBEM, so I was trying to avoid editing alpha.txt on the basis that it might cause a problem with my MP games. Is there a way of making a modified alpha.txt specific to a particular scenario? If there is, can you give me idiot-proof instructions for how it's done?

It would be interesting to test out the might theory properly. Course, it may be that if the AI misjudges its might it begins to make ridiculous mistakes based on incorrect data. And it still doesn't alter the fact that the AI needs to have some real - rather than perceived - might in order to put up a good fight. Nevertheless, it's worth exploring ...

[Chowlett]

Misotu, IIRC to make an alpha(x).txt for a specific scenario, just bung your edited copy in the scenario folder - SMAC looks there first, and if no rules are found reverts to those in the root.

[Sinapus]

quote: Originally posted by Helium Pond on 08-15-2000 01:56 PM Hm. This forum's pretty dead, huh? Oh well, I'll reply to my own message. So, here's what I've tried. I modified one of the user-defined techs. I called it Might Enhancement Tech, gave it values of 100, 100, 100, and 100, and made it researchable without any prerequisites. I figured, with those values, it'll be the first thing every AI researches. Then all I have to do is just *not* research it, and the might graph will be properly skewed for the whole game. Unfortunately, I forgot about pods. I went and popped a pod, and got given the might enhancement tech right off.

Did you put "None" as the prerequisites or "Disable" as the prerequisites?

I think putting "Disable, Disable" makes it impossible to get ahold of that tech. I'll see if you can give it to a faction by default and see if it ever comes up via pod popping or artifact cashing.




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|"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
| thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5

[Sinapus]

Another thought: does the limit in the faction editor (8 benefits/penalties) affect anything? I am using a text editor to put the Might Enhancement Tech into each faction (I use a custom faction) and saving the file. However, when I looked at the factions prior to modifying them I noticed the Usurpers have all eight slots filled in. Anyone know if adding yet another social benefit will mess up the settings on this faction?

I also noticed you get wierd results when you add the custom tech and view it in the faction editor, but that isn't important.

[Misotu]

Thanks Chowlett. I'll try it. Now, all I have to do is fathom out how you edit alpha.txt.

[Sinapus]

Okay, setting it to 'disable' won't work. It never shows up and the powergraph is about even for everyone. So I set it w/Transcendant Thought and gave it 100 for each value.

So far I've managed to get halfway to the others powerwise. Haven't had extended contact with any. Just found Roze. The immediate problem I found is keeping her from giving me the Might Enhancement tech.

The other downside is I can't share world maps since there will always be another tech to trade. That makes things a bit more challenging, though. Usually I try to share world maps and then send empath gunfoils to pods near their shores to find/capture isles of the deep.

Anyone know the max number you can set that power enhancer too? I might want to make it higher so I stay lower on the powergraph.

[Sinapus]

Okay, this is the third time I've tried to post, but I don't see the previous two. If there are three more from me then I apologize in advance.

quote: Originally posted by Grigger on 08-21-2000 12:33 PM A rather interesting idea. Sinapus: I thought that the whole idea of the Might Negation tech was to make it so that if Roze does give you the Might Enhancement tech, it doesn't affect you. Anyway, I don't think the game itself will ignore items after the first eight, and if you text edit one of the faction files, you will find more on that one line than in those eight slots in Facedit. I think it's more of a recommendation because factions with too many positives and negatives become confusing and boring to play.

The main reason why I haven't put the negative might tech is because I've been making other mods to alphax.txt. Sort of a cross between SNAC and some of Alex III's ideas.

Has anyone added more techs to the list, especially since SMACX took up a lot of the User Techs on that list? Had to remove Doctrine: Colonization to make room for the might enhancer tech.


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|"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
| thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5

[Sinapus]

Well, tested it out and found that the eight slot limit does count. I put the might negation tech at the end of the list and it didn't show up. Elminated one of the benefits, reloaded and restarted the game and the tech showed up. So eight social benefits is the limit, don't know about the rules section though.

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|"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
| thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5

[Grigger]

A rather interesting idea. Sinapus: I thought that the whole idea of the Might Negation tech was to make it so that if Roze does give you the Might Enhancement tech, it doesn't affect you. Anyway, I don't think the game itself will ignore items after the first eight, and if you text edit one of the faction files, you will find more on that one line than in those eight slots in Facedit. I think it's more of a recommendation because factions with too many positives and negatives become confusing and boring to play.

[Helium Pond]

Sinapus, from your play-testing, can you tell if the AI plays better when it thinks it's mighty?

[Sinapus]

quote: Originally posted by Helium Pond on 08-25-2000 01:15 PM Sinapus, from your play-testing, can you tell if the AI plays better when it thinks it's mighty?

They appear to be building better infrastructure. I have the Hive and Believers at war with me. I've noticed them building Tree Farms in their bases.

As for military, I think I took advantage of foresight and keep using airstrikes to blow away any units that get too close. Maybe I should give them Doctrine: Air Power and see what happens.


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|"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
| thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5

[chatgr]

There is a far better way to make AI play better
A.I is very bad at air power.
So make AIR power much less advantageus.
I play with a modpact that gives chopper at the end game.
Instead of chopper missle is given and cost now same as airplane and also has range of 8
Also make roads movement cost of 1/6
THat way the incretible bad play of aI after air power is balanced.
And finnaly make disadvantage of ground strike for airsupremacy units 90 %
That way A.I decision not to make ground strikes with air superiority units is totaly justified.