SMAC(X) In Space - why stay planet-bound? (continued)

[Jasonian]

I give life to this thread!!

What's up with this project? Is it in production, or has it fallen silent?

[Marukusu]

Hey, AlexanderIII, shouldn't you change the names a bit? Aerospace Complex, Naval Yard, Xenoempathy dome... How'd you explain these? And I think Space Academy would be better than a hyperspace one. What about land/sea/air units? Maybe bomber/assault/interceptor?
What about sunstormes, volcanoes, terrain enhancements? Planet Busters, tectonic missiles?
Oh yeah, I've got lots of questions.
Well, this concept is really tough to be made under SMAC(x).
Good luck!

[AlexanderIII]

The way I see it, the naming of things is never a problem, just that it requires a little ingenuity, since you can alter all the text everywhere in the game inside the various txt files.

[wheathin]

Representation of galaxy with map wrapping:

Alexander, good idea, but how about this: slightly modify your idea. The map represents the OUTER EDGE of the galaxy: like a thick peel of an orange. Thus, if you go all the way around the map, you are all the way around the circumference of the galaxy. This works if you just assume that you can't ever settle or travel thru the center of the galaxy because of the monster black hole: spaceships would always have to go the long way around.

The poles would be intergalactic space, or maybe Star Clusters located outside the galactic plane.

Wheathin

[AlexanderIII]

quote: Originally posted by Fugi the Great on 01-12-2000 12:13 AM Do you disable pollution? How would you explain "space" level changing if there is too much pollution, such as "space level will increase by 300 parsecs over the next 20 years". Also may need to disable melt solar shade manipulation, and melting the poles. Of course it may the fabric of space gets too thin and planets start falling out of normal space into another dimension (water level rises), or start popping into existance (water level decreases).

There is no "space" level; the higher the terrain, the lower the local gravitational field. Thus, increased polution from hyperspace drives and space mining actually damages the space-time continuum (a vague star-trekky theory), thereby increasing the local gravitational field. Since planets (star systems) are so small on an interstellar level, the local prara-gravitational field is not affected to enough of a degree to be represented on the map, unless the local space changes enough to go from plasma space to normal space or vice-versa (land<->sea).

Now, the "sea" is now a sea of nebulous gas or plasma which congregates in densest gravitational areas (lowest areas). Because this plasma damages normal ships much the same way that the desert sand can destroy jet turbines not fitted for desert use, you need "plasma ships", but through a quirk in their propulsion drive they can only navigate through plasma (sea), not in normal space (land) -- until "gravships" are discovered.

quote: Salvaging Unity Power core? There was once a galactic empire in a galaxy very far away, but this empire was doomed because this galaxy was beginning to collide with another, and we are the last 7 surviving species from that great empire that left before the end using a super hyper drive ship to get us to this new galaxy.

Salavage Unity Core could become Salvage Progenitor Drive. The story goes that a series of old Vorlon-type ships were discovered and distributed amongst the races by crook or by trade, so it is assumed that, like the Unity Core, each faction has access. Only one faction will be the first to discover the technology to unlocking its secrets, granting an incredible boon of energy to all.

quote: I have no problem with planets popping out of nowhere (raising land), just make the graphic for space, (the sea), look like a small solar system, and when you get the technology to "build planets", you can make planets around the suns from the stellar debris and cosmic dust. Then why would you want to destroy planets to live on the space debris (lower land)? Maybe disable lowering land?

Again, you have three types of space:
1. Normal Space -- Land
2. Plasma Space -- Sea
3. Hyperspace -- Orbit

There are star systems in each square of the map (with exception to "rocky" squares, which are now called asteroid fields). A planet (base graphic) only appears on the map when a star system is colonized, as this is a battle map, and as such is representational. So a planet can appear in the sea (plasma space) or on land (normal space) without problems. When a terraformer raises the gravity (lowers the land), plasma, seeking out areas of lowest gravitation, seeps into normal space. If a base/planetary system is there that does not have a Gravity Dome to withstand the extreme gravitational forces acruuing in the area, it is destroyed, much in the same way a base would disapear into the sea without a Pressure Dome.

[AlexanderIII]

quote: Originally posted by Fugi the Great on 01-12-2000 12:13 AM Do you disable pollution? How would you explain "space" level changing if there is too much pollution, such as "space level will increase by 300 parsecs over the next 20 years". Also may need to disable melt solar shade manipulation, and melting the poles. Of course it may the fabric of space gets too thin and planets start falling out of normal space into another dimension (water level rises), or start popping into existance (water level decreases).

There is no "space" level; the higher the terrain, the lower the local gravitational field. Thus, increased polution from hyperspace drives and space mining actually damages the space-time continuum (a vague star-trekky theory), thereby increasing the local gravitational field. Since planets (star systems) are so small on an interstellar level, the local prara-gravitational field is not affected to enough of a degree to be represented on the map, unless the local space changes enough to go from plasma space to normal space or vice-versa (land<->sea).

Now, the "sea" is now a sea of nebulous gas or plasma which congregates in densest gravitational areas (lowest areas). Because this plasma damages normal ships much the same way that the desert sand can destroy jet turbines not fitted for desert use, you need "plasma ships", but through a quirk in their propulsion drive they can only navigate through plasma (sea), not in normal space (land) -- until "gravships" are discovered.

quote: Salvaging Unity Power core? There was once a galactic empire in a galaxy very far away, but this empire was doomed because this galaxy was beginning to collide with another, and we are the last 7 surviving species from that great empire that left before the end using a super hyper drive ship to get us to this new galaxy.

Salavage Unity Core could become Salvage Progenitor Drive. The story goes that a series of old Vorlon-type ships were discovered and distributed amongst the races by crook or by trade, so it is assumed that, like the Unity Core, each faction has access. Only one faction will be the first to discover the technology to unlocking its secrets, granting an incredible boon of energy to all.

quote: I have no problem with planets popping out of nowhere (raising land), just make the graphic for space, (the sea), look like a small solar system, and when you get the technology to "build planets", you can make planets around the suns from the stellar debris and cosmic dust. Then why would you want to destroy planets to live on the space debris (lower land)? Maybe disable lowering land?

Again, you have three types of space:
1. Normal Space -- Land
2. Plasma Space -- Sea
3. Hyperspace -- Orbit

There are star systems in each square of the map (with exception to "rocky" squares, which are now called asteroid fields). A planet (base graphic) only appears on the map when a star system is colonized, as this is a battle map, and as such is representational. So a planet can appear in the sea (plasma space) or on land (normal space) without problems. When a terraformer raises the gravity (lowers the land), plasma, seeking out areas of lowest gravitation, seeps into normal space. If a base/planetary system is there that does not have a Gravity Dome to withstand the extreme gravitational forces acruuing in the area, it is destroyed, much in the same way a base would disapear into the sea without a Pressure Dome.

[AlexanderIII]

quote: Originally posted by Fugi the Great on 01-12-2000 12:13 AM Do you disable pollution? How would you explain "space" level changing if there is too much pollution, such as "space level will increase by 300 parsecs over the next 20 years". Also may need to disable melt solar shade manipulation, and melting the poles. Of course it may the fabric of space gets too thin and planets start falling out of normal space into another dimension (water level rises), or start popping into existance (water level decreases).

There is no "space" level; the higher the terrain, the lower the local gravitational field. Thus, increased polution from hyperspace drives and space mining actually damages the space-time continuum (a vague star-trekky theory), thereby increasing the local gravitational field. Since planets (star systems) are so small on an interstellar level, the local prara-gravitational field is not affected to enough of a degree to be represented on the map, unless the local space changes enough to go from plasma space to normal space or vice-versa (land<->sea).

Now, the "sea" is now a sea of nebulous gas or plasma which congregates in densest gravitational areas (lowest areas). Because this plasma damages normal ships much the same way that the desert sand can destroy jet turbines not fitted for desert use, you need "plasma ships", but through a quirk in their propulsion drive they can only navigate through plasma (sea), not in normal space (land) -- until "gravships" are discovered.

quote: Salvaging Unity Power core? There was once a galactic empire in a galaxy very far away, but this empire was doomed because this galaxy was beginning to collide with another, and we are the last 7 surviving species from that great empire that left before the end using a super hyper drive ship to get us to this new galaxy.

Salavage Unity Core could become Salvage Progenitor Drive. The story goes that a series of old Vorlon-type ships were discovered and distributed amongst the races by crook or by trade, so it is assumed that, like the Unity Core, each faction has access. Only one faction will be the first to discover the technology to unlocking its secrets, granting an incredible boon of energy to all.

quote: I have no problem with planets popping out of nowhere (raising land), just make the graphic for space, (the sea), look like a small solar system, and when you get the technology to "build planets", you can make planets around the suns from the stellar debris and cosmic dust. Then why would you want to destroy planets to live on the space debris (lower land)? Maybe disable lowering land?

Again, you have three types of space:
1. Normal Space -- Land
2. Plasma Space -- Sea
3. Hyperspace -- Orbit

There are star systems in each square of the map (with exception to "rocky" squares, which are now called asteroid fields). A planet (base graphic) only appears on the map when a star system is colonized, as this is a battle map, and as such is representational. So a planet can appear in the sea (plasma space) or on land (normal space) without problems. When a terraformer raises the gravity (lowers the land), plasma, seeking out areas of lowest gravitation, seeps into normal space. If a base/planetary system is there that does not have a Gravity Dome to withstand the extreme gravitational forces acruuing in the area, it is destroyed, much in the same way a base would disapear into the sea without a Pressure Dome.

[Jasonian]

I think we got it the first time

Persoally, I'm quite excited about this project and think it would add a whole new feel to the game. Some chassis explinations I've thought up are as follows:


Infantry: Fighter ships. They're slower then capital ships but are more useful when attacking a planet since presision targetting is requied to disable the planet's energy shield.

Speeder: Capital ships. Move twice as fast as fighters and gain bonuses when fighing against fighters due to many small guns.

Foil: Plasma ship. An early design. Huge. Have enough internal cargo space to transport even capital ships.

Cruiser: Upgraded plasma ship. A newer model of the plasma ship, it can carry more and move faster.

Needlejet: All-purpose capital ship: A special ship that can travel in both subspace and plasma. Quick and powerful. All-purpose shields make it immune no attack by ships without the proper weapon upgrade. (AAA) However, their shielding drains the energy core, and it must refuel at a base every two turns or be stranded forever in space.

Chopper: All-purpose fighters: Similar to capital ships, these fighters can attack for a very long time. Constant exposure to space hurts the shielding, so they must return to a planet each turn if possible to avoid damage.

Gravship: Ultimate capital ship: Can travel in both plasma and subspace without damage each turn. Like the all-purpose ships, it is immune to attack against those without upgrades.

Missile: Hyperspace seeker. Fired through hyperspace, it emerges near it's target and destroys itself with no warning. Can also carry space fungus planters, gravity disrupers, and Planet Busters (in the literally since of the phrase)

Elite +1 bonus: Only the best captains can afford to upgrade their ship's engines to give it the +1 bonus.

New reactors: Shield powerups. Make enemy attacks less effective. Also, shields can cover more of the ship, allowing trasnsport's size to be increased.

Fuel nanocells: Installed in all-purpose ships as an engine upgrade.

[AlexanderIII]

Jasionian, your suggestions are very good. More interesting-sounding names will have to be arrived at instead of the usual chassis names, but there is lots of time for that.

I have an alternate suggestion for the +1 Elite bonus: Like the Starship Enterprise had a crew who knew how to squeeze the maximum efficiency out of the ship in any given situation (expert leaders & engineering staff), the ship actually begins to perform above the optimal specs, hence the +1 movement rating.

[AlexanderIII]

quote: Originally posted by Jasonian on 04-25-2000 07:31 PM I think we got it the first time

Hey, just making sure

[Krusty]

But isn't the SMAC map pseudo-3D?

[AlexanderIII]

Yes and no, mostly no. The map is just a flat projection of a circular surface, which isn't that difficult to represent. Representing true three dimensional space on a flat map requires a bit of innovation to figure out exactly what we might be seeing as far as the SMAC map translated in real-world terms. And it's not critical to the game; it just adds a bit of realism, that's all.