New techs in SMACX

[Jasonian]

I've come across two things while working on my Star Wars mod. One should help you people out, and one I need help on myself.

The first is these so called "Ethics" techs of mine. The idea is to give each faction their own starting tech that no one can research and can only get in trade.

The first test:
Empire Ethics,EmpEth,0,0,0,0,None,None,000000000

This didn't work at all. The faction starts with the tech, but all factions could research it at any time. Hmm...

The second test:
Ethics,EmpEth,0,0,0,0,Disable,Disable,000000000

This was promising. However, when I started a game, the faction not only didn't have the tech and couldn't build the units that come with it, but it didn't even appear in the datalinks entry with all the tech names! An interesting note was that the custom units still said that their pre tech was "Empire Ethics", even though nothing else mentioned it all all. Hmmm...

The third test:
Ethics,EmpEth,0,0,0,0,TranT,None,000000000

This seems to be the best. If the other factions have gotten Trancent Thought and STILL don't have your tech, they deserve to be able to research it. It works in the game pefectly. So, if you want to create a tech no one else can research, I recomend the above model.


NOW: THE QUESTION

While scanning the tect list, I noticed there were two "deleted" techs (One about Spartans shooting at reactors and one with Morgan claiming "energy is the currency of the future," which it is), plus the "User Tech." That makes three techs that we can use. I want to create 8. If I place new techs at the bottom of the list, will they work correctly in the game?

[AlexanderIII]

No, unfortunately you cannot, from what my experiments show. I also discovered that TranT method of giving access to a tech only to a faction unless given as a bonus at start, but never found a use for it till you mentioned it. Great work.

One thing you can do, though, is reassign some all of the attributes of a few of the existing techs, like maybe Optical Computers (which is a pretty useless tech as it gives you nothing anyway) or some of the new SMACX tehs. Then remap and rename the old tech to whatever you want, freeing up a slot. Though my intuition tells me that clearing 5 more techs and compressing their attributes elsewhere is going to be a real stretch...

[Jasonian]

Dang! Ugh... ok fine.

I can cut one tech out. It gives you Death Stars if you have the Empire Ethics and Orbial Spaceflight techs. I can simply add that to some tech.

3 free spaces + Optical Computers... that means I need to get rid of 3 more techs... Ugh.

Well, thanks for responding. At least I know what I'm up against now.

[AlexanderIII]

Why don't you send me a copy of your alpha.txt file (including the techs that will not work in the empty slots), and I'll see if I can help, since I have a lot of experience remapping tech trees. I promise not to steal any of your ideas -- my SNAX 1.3 mod is basically finished, I am just now working on the readme and the strategy guide.

[Jasonian]

Actually, it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be! I simply got rid of the four techs that I felt could be eliminated. I only chose techs that didn't offer any weapons, armors, reactors, or chassis. Each tech I chose had 3 or less things connected with it (SPs, abilites, facilites, and techs that use it as a prerequisite tech) The list of changes is below:

TECH TREE CHANGES

Optical Computers - deleted
Supercondutor - pretech - Polymorphic Software
Advanced Military Algorythems - pretech - Applied Physics

Frictionless Surfaces - deleted
Cloaking Device - moved - Quantom Power
Quantom Power - prereq - Industrial Nonorobotics

Applied Relativity - deleted
Supercollider - moved - Superconductor
Photon/Wave Mechanics - prereq - Superconductor
Unified Field Theory - prereq - Adaptive Doctrine

Homo Superior - deleted
Nanohospital - moved - Biomachinery
The Universal Translater - moved - The Will to Power
The Will to Power - prereq - Biomachinery

[Sikander]

Hey Jasonion, I have a suggestion and a couple of comments. First of all, why don't you call your new tech Emperial Ethics (rather than Empire Ethics). It sounds better to the ear.

Your mod sounds pretty good. I'll enjoy having a look at it when your playtest is finished. I would like to do a mod myself. I am full of ideas, but don't even have enough time to play, let alone learn all the arcana necessary to successfully build a decent mod pack.

As for your comment regarding energy being the currency of the future, I disagree. Energy is valuable currently (no pun intended), but this situation is subject to change. If we were able to develop Fusion power at only a fraction of it's potential, any economy based upon the value of energy would collapse immediately. That is why it is better to have a currency which is inherently worthless, but whose value floats on the value of everything else. It provides stability, which is the crucial element in saving and investment. Also, who would want to transfer and store actual energy, when one could use E-currency at a fraction of the cost?

Smac is a fun game, but it's social commentary and future science are badly done. Notice the SE numbers for Free Market for instance. What a joke. I guess all of the varying examples of nations with free market economies in the world today somehow were missed by the design team, while they seem to cling to their ivory tower view of how the world 'really' works. The SE was a good idea, but it's relevance to the historical human experience is questionable at best. Even the game play aspects of the SE are sloppy. Many of the factions designed by Fireaxis are forced into making SE choices which produce diminishing returns, and forbidden from making more balanced selections. I think this is one of the reasons that so many people want to make their own factions.

The implications of the science are even worse. To further use the example of fusion power cited above, what are the game effects of it's discovery? None of them are economic, even though the economy is based upon the 'Joule' standard. Instead, military units become cheaper (reasonable depending on how much of the production cost is based on energy), and have more hit points. Huh? Meanwhile the guy who goes into the forest to chop wood for energy still goes to work each morning, completely secure that his job is just as valuable to the economy as it was yesterday. Why would a 'clean' reactor make a unit free from upkeep costs? The list is endless.

Of course the way to fix this stuff is for the player to modify the game in a more logical manner. There are two problems with this however. The first problem is that the means for doing this are poorly implemented by Fireaxis. Until someone puts together an integrated tool to help designers modify the game, only a few people will bother. The second, and more intractable problem is that the AI will be more and more crippled by any changes the designer makes to the game. The extent to which you, Alexander III and a few others have been able to succeed is a credit to you, and I wish you guys all the best in your endevors.

[Jasonian]

Imperial Ethics? Hmm... that does sound better. I'll make the change. Thanks for the comment.

Did I say that 'energy is the currency of the future?!' I don't remember saying that...

*reads his posts*

Ah! I didn't say it! One of the deleted techs in SMAC was going to be the "Global Energy Theory", which has the quote "Energy is the currency of the future" by Morgan, naturally.

You pose many good points against it, and I feel that I agree with many of them. Energy, while valuable, is far too unconventional to ever be used as a currency.

[Sikander]

Jasonion,

What does the Star Wars saga use for money? Imperial Credits? Just wondering.

[AlexanderIII]

quote: Originally posted by Sikander on 02-09-2000 04:30 AMThe second, and more intractable problem is that the AI will be more and more crippled by any changes the designer makes to the game. The extent to which you, Alexander III and a few others have been able to succeed is a credit to you, and I wish you guys all the best in your endevors.

Most of what you said here I agree with -- and it's only a game. What I must take issue with here is that extensive modification will cripple the AI. Yes, that is true, but only if the designer is completely inept, in which case the mod will be unplayable anyway. In my SNAX mod, I've actually managed to make the AI better builders, better terraformers, able to make improved SE choices, and being more innovative in their choice of unit combinations. Look forward to charing all these secrets with you when the mod is out in May.

[AlexanderIII]

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[AlexanderIII]

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[AlexanderIII]

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[AlexanderIII]

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[AlexanderIII]

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[AlexanderIII]

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