New faction:Pacifists

[Enigma]

It is very rare that I see a faction with a police penalty. Since a big police penalty suggests heavily a pacifist faction, I decided to make one.

Leader: Minister Orken (can't think of name)
Background: Author of UN charter
Agenda: Create an idealistic state free of tyrany and war

Starting tech: Ethical calc.

+2 growth- Socialistic society promotes growth

+1 econ- Free society encourages a healthy economy

-2 industry- Highly unionized labor slows industry

-3 police: Very pacifistic
1 talent for every 3 people: Enlighted society


Free Children creche: Growth encouraged

Cant use police state

Impunity (or is it immunity?): Democracy

Anyway tell me what you think. The children's creche and growth bonus are extremely powerful but the industry hit stops it from being TOO powerful. -2 industry hurts a lot. Anyway when I started this faction I was focusing mostly on the police penalty, but as it turned out it ended up being a lot like korn469 's creche+ growth faction.

Too many bonuses? Police penalty too strict? Give me feedback pls.

[This message has been edited by Enigma (edited March 29, 2000).]

[Stefu]

Shouldn't pacifist faction be with morale penalty, or at least about -50% to attack?

[Enigma]

Maybe, but what I am trying to accomplish with the low police rating is to prevent them from attack, not make them defenseless. With a big morale penalty or-gasp minus FIFTY percent to attack this faction would be completely defenseless. That isn't what I am trying to accomplish, just to prevent them from attacking.

[Enigma]

More feedback pls!

[korn469]

Enigma

you have too many bonuses, and a Free children's creche is a really powerful bounus, especially when combined with +2 growth...your faction would easily outgrow the competition

if you go dem/FM/wealth then you have

+6 growth
+4 economy
-8 police
-3 planet
-1 industry

the police and the planet penalties have the same effect effect as normal free market, and the -1 industry isn't that severe, since you have an increadable economy and you are pop booming, AND you have lots of talents helping to control the drones

try this

+1 growth
+1 economy
-2 police
-1 industry
talent for every 4
no police state

they are still a power faction but not too much i don't think, but try that out

korn469

[Smeagol]

korn-- That new version that you suggest is still way too powerful. +1 economy is one of the biggest bonuses in the game, as it allows you to get that "magic" +2 without using Free Market. It really is Morgan's only bonus, and look at the penalties that faction has (-1 support and hab limits of 4/11). -2 Police really isn't a penalty at all, especially with the additional talent per 4 citizens.

If you want to give a faction +1 economy, they need a large penalty to offset that (like Morgan's hab limits, or maybe a larger industry penalty).

[Enigma]

Korn, I can see your point, and those ARE the intended SE choices for this faction, but consider the effect of -2 industry on early game expansion. It should almost make up for the +4 growth. This faction is SUPPOSED to be almost overpowered as a builder, but the main thing is that they simply can not take an offensive until punishment spheres. Knowing that your neighbors are the pacifists allows you to not have to defend at all, while they do.

+1 growth is almost completely meaningless since there are no other odd number bonuses and you need 6 to get pop boom. At the very least +2 growth is what I want for this faction. And I will reduce the police rating to -4 or -5.

Yes when running dem/fm/wealth they have huge bonuses, but the point is that that is virually ALL they can do. This faction's police penalty means they can't use those bonuses for a direct offensive. And do not underestimate the -2 industry... this is pretty major for a penalty.

The talents are completely intentional. I do not want an unhappy faction that can not control it's growth.

If the +1 econ is super powerful I will take it away, but the reason it is significant for Morgan is that he can get +2 econ AND take an offensive. This faction can never go pod popping, they can't mobilize their forces, etc. When Morgan gets big he can use the +2 econ of wealth and then go fundy to invade people with a lot of cash- which favors heavy use of probes. But Morgan can't invade people with JUST probe teams.
[This message has been edited by Enigma (edited April 01, 2000).]

[korn469]

smeagol

i was trying to help enigma balance his faction and i took away -1 police and -1 growth from his negative while at the same time taking away +1 growth, free children's creches, changed talents from 3 per citizen to 4 per citizen and impunity to democratic

that's kinda a big trade off

hehe maybe that faction would be balanced

+1 growth
-1 police
-1 industry
talent for every 12 citizens
free children's creche
impunity to democratic
no police state
tech: ethical calculus

even that one sounds too powerful

but yeah you are probably right that the other faction i proposed is two powerful also

enigma

quote: This faction is SUPPOSED to be almost overpowered as a builder, but the main thing is that they simply can not take an offensive until punishment spheres.

they are over powered as builders and they can take the offensive as long before punishment spheres...with poor man's punishment spheres and just not choosing FM this faction can take the offensive easily

the can pop boom and run FM without democratic's support penalty and with lots of talents, this faction could also reach +5 economy fairly easily in most of their bases because of golden ages

they can pod pop with probe teams or seaa transports and independent units or units supported from a poor man's punishment sphere

they can invade with units supported from a poor man's punishment sphere and once they get punishment spheres then they are really in business

if you have +2 growth and a talent to every four citizens and you can run everything but police state then that in itself is a huge advantage over almost every other faction...that is like if morgan started out with the HGP and the CV

i do not know if you could balance a faction with +2 growth and a talent for every three citizens then using only -4 values in social engineering then i am not sure you can balance that out

i do not believe that a faction should have more than +/- six values in social engineering, anymore than that doesn't show up in the faction report part of your social engineering screen

if you had a faction with +2 growth and +1 economy that couldn't run police state then maybe -2 police, -1 support and with a drone for every 4 citizens might balance them out early game...mid game with punishment spheres they might still be too strong, late game it doesn't really matter because late game isn't very balanced anyway

korn469

[Enigma]

Thanks for the new feedback korn. I agree with you about taking away the growth, I think that-

Impunity democracy and
free creches

is more than enough... adding +2 growth to the mix is overpowered. This faction does not need +1 extra growth.

However I disagree about -4 police being easily countered. A poor man's punishment sphere works well but it is simply nowhere near as efficient as being able to support units from your base. A believer who can support 4 units per base could save a lot more minerals than someone who had to import crawlers and waste the 4 minerals on a size 1 base.

But I bow to your superior knowledge in this case in that +1 economy and permanant pop boom is overpowered.


I am not familiar with UBB code how do you make text bold?

Honestly I have no clue what to do with this faction at this point. Pacifism drones are too easily circumvented.

[korn469]

Enigma

the thing is the only units you have to support from a p-sphere poor man's or otherwise base is your airforce or your marines...if you have drop troops you don't need to support them from a p-sphere base...ground troops don't need to be supported from a p-shpere base either in most cases, but you will have to support your copters and needlejets out of it

i almost always play as the spartans or the UoP and use free market...that is why that i don't think that pacifist drones are a problem...the spartans with the ascetic virtue can have -3 police when using dem/FM/wealth and they have no problems launching an invasion...once you get use to them it is easy to get around them

also instead of having impunity democratic have immunity support...that is more balanced

to activate ubb use the {} but use [ instead of { them

so to make this word bold type {b}WORD{/b} there is an ubb primer link right below where it says submit reply

korn469

[Enigma]

I forget what is SE choice spartans can't make? It seems it would be wealth.. dem police fundy taken... planned FM taken.. knowledge taken and she obviously would not hate power, plus green doesn't fit. So what is her hate if it isn't wealth?

Thanks for telling me how to do [b]bold[b\] text

[Enigma]

I forget what is SE choice spartans can't make? It seems it would be wealth.. dem police fundy taken... planned FM taken.. knowledge taken and she obviously would not hate power, plus green doesn't fit. So what is her hate if it isn't wealth?

Ah thanks for advice on UBB korn

[korn469]

enigma

you are right i was leaving for work and i was in a hurry and dem/FM/wealth was a typo...i usually run dem/FM/kno not wealth and the spartans can't choose wealth...sorry about that

korn469

[korn469]

enigma one more thing...the slash comes before the second b not after

click the edit button and look at my post

that will show you how to

• make a list
• use bold
• use italics
• and hyperlink

korn469