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Reverse Engineering by AI?

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  • #1

    Reverse Engineering by AI?

    Although I don't post many messages here, I've been playing SMAC/X almost every day for at least two years. I just saw something I can't remember seeing before. Something similar may have been reported by others, but a brief search didn't turn anything up.

    I'm playing SMAX, fully patched. I'm the Gaians and the Morganites are a submissive pact mate. I gifted Morgan a 1e-1-6 (Clean) Empath Cruiser. Morgan did not have Doc: Initiative. A few turns later I noticed that one of Morgan's bases was building a 1e-2-6 Empath Synthmetal Cutter (non-clean). I also can see this unit in Morgan's Security Nexus screen. Morgan still doesn't have Doc:Initiative (in fact, that's what he's currently researching, with 4 turns to go).

    So it looks like Morgan reverse engineered my gifted 1e-1-6 (clean) Cruiser into a 1e-2-6 non-clean cruiser. I didn't think the AI would do this. Anyone have an explanation?

    Petek
    "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
    -- Kosh
    Tags: None
  • #2
    i think the AI does reverse engineer. IIRC, zak reverse engineered a probed chaos unit from me one time. roze *tried* to build chaos one time after she probed me, but fortunately, i was able to erradicate her before she finished the prototypes

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tassadar5000
      how do you give units to the AI?!
      First you have to have sex with their faction leader.
      Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
      Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
      "Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
      From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"

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      • #4
        I guess that's why I never give units to Yang! LOL

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        • #5
          how do you give units to the AI?!
          After having sex, you've got two actions: Either when you give away a base (diplomacy->suggestion->sign of goodwill->transfer base, or so) I think all units supported from and present in this base will be transferred.
          Or, for single units, move them into the AI's territory and call "transfer unit" in the action menu.

          First you have to have sex with their faction leader.
          Hard time to transfer a unit to the Consciousness or the Aliens ...
          Why doing it the easy way if it is possible to do it complicated?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Adalbertus
            Or, for single units, move them into the AI's territory and call "transfer unit" in the action menu.
            alternatively, press either CTRL+U or SHIFT+U (can't remember which). the same goes for releasing worms into the wild.

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            • #7
              all of the above

              TKG wrote:
              alternatively, press either CTRL+U or SHIFT+U (can't remember which). the same goes for releasing worms into the wild.
              To gift or release a unit it's all three keys:
              CTRL + SHIFT + U.
              CTRL + U = upgrade unit.
              SHIFT + U = unload transport.
              Solo U = unit workshop.
              I am on a mission to see how much coffee it takes to actually achieve time travel.

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              • #8
                Shift&U - ugh! The key combo I forgot...stupid person that I am...

                Anyway. Turning over units is a nice thing to do, but can also be used to cripple the AI's war effort, sucking their support dry and giving them useless units. I once gave Deirdre a hovertan transport and because she'd never seen one before she started mass-producing them. One at every second base...weird woman...
                "Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman

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                • #9
                  Anyway. Turning over units is a nice thing to do, but can also be used to cripple the AI's war effort, sucking their support dry and giving them useless units. I once gave Deirdre a hovertan transport and because she'd never seen one before she started mass-producing them. One at every second base...weird woman...
                  I like that ... AI imitating like monkeys ...and many humans behave the same way. Of course, that's the way children learn. I've read about an experiment where adults switched off the light with their nose. Most (very young, two or three years old) children imitated at first. The brighter ones then realized that it works just as well with the hands. But who said the AI is bright ...
                  Why doing it the easy way if it is possible to do it complicated?

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                  • #10
                    The AI is about as bright as a two-watt lightbulb. Unfortunately, that also makes it irritating...
                    Especially the way someone can go from magnanimous to seething in the space of a turn just because their pact brother decided they should go to war with you...
                    Lovely. One turn I'm cosying up to Deirdre, about to extract the secret of Centauri Meditation from her, and then Lal wanders in and, oh look, they're combining forces against me. Gah.
                    "Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Clear Skies

                      Anyway. Turning over units is a nice thing to do, but can also be used to cripple the AI's war effort, sucking their support dry and giving them useless units. I once gave Deirdre a hovertan transport and because she'd never seen one before she started mass-producing them. One at every second base...weird woman...
                      I've also employed the technique of turning over useless units. However, this could backfire if the AI can reverse engineer a hovertank transport into a hovertank probe team or something else more useful.

                      I once gave Deidre Needlejet transports and she cranked out dozens. She never, however, used the Needlejet chassis for anything else until she discovered DAP. Contrast this with the original post in this thread.

                      So, does anyone know the conditions under which the AI will reverse engineer your gifts and what they will change them to?
                      "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                      -- Kosh

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                      • #12
                        Petek: AFAIK you can't build units that you don't have the tech for but you can "reverse engineer" units you somehow aquire. So in your case Deidre wasn't able to build anything else using a Needlejet chassis until she discovered the required tech.
                        When you are give a unit you don't have the tech for, it's the same. You can build it but you can't use the unresearched parts for another design.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Todd Hawks
                          Petek: AFAIK you can't build units that you don't have the tech for but you can "reverse engineer" units you somehow aquire. So in your case Deidre wasn't able to build anything else using a Needlejet chassis until she discovered the required tech.
                          When you are give a unit you don't have the tech for, it's the same. You can build it but you can't use the unresearched parts for another design.
                          Were the Gaians human controlled they could have done so, Todd. Go to the Design Workshop, select the needlejet transport design, change the transport module to Missile Weapon and presto! you have a missile noodle. (Provided you have Synthetic Fuels for Missiles, of course. Otherwise, whatever weapon you have/wish.)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Todd Hawks
                            Petek: AFAIK you can't build units that you don't have the tech for but you can "reverse engineer" units you somehow aquire. So in your case Deidre wasn't able to build anything else using a Needlejet chassis until she discovered the required tech.
                            When you are give a unit you don't have the tech for, it's the same. You can build it but you can't use the unresearched parts for another design.
                            Todd, to add to Mongoose's reply, please refer to the first post in this thread. In that example, Morgan did not yet have the tech that allows the cruiser chassis. However, he was able to build a cruiser of a design different than the cruiser that he was given. TKG also cited a case of the AI reverse engineering a subverted unit. It seems that the AI can reverse engineer some units but not others.
                            "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                            -- Kosh

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                            • #15
                              Well,
                              I stand corrected, it seems. I remember I tried this a long time ago but it didn't work.
                              Time to get back to SMAXing to test it.

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