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  • Anyone ever wonder . . . ?

    Why they have such a hard time with the worms/fungus? You'd think that, given their considerable knowledge of genetics, they'd be able to send out a steady stream of pathogens to cripple either or both. Or engineer a more benign form, or introduce congenital illness into the population by releasing retroviruses. Et cetera. As for the worms, they're a solid argument for an expanded robotic drone program. Dunno how their psionic abilities are supposed to work, but I don't imagine they do too much to a totally automated robot with a fumigator attached.

    Yeah, I know, then it wouldn't be fun. Anybody bored enough to come up with an "in-universe" explanation for why simple solutions like those wouldn't work?
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

  • #2
    Against humans they do a lot of damage because they affect minds in close proximity.

    Against machines, could it be that they emit some kind of more-or-less potent electromagnetic pulse?

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    • #3
      You could probably work up some kind of argument that their effect on human minds works electromagnetically, and therefore has a scrambling effect on robots. Though it's possible to shield machines against EM interference.

      It's just funny that they're on a planet almost covered by an inedible weed that expands aggressively--often destroying infrastructure in the process--and shelters vicious parasites, and they focus on fighting each other instead of making the annihilation of these things their absolute top priority.
      1011 1100
      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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      • #4
        In any game, does it look like worms are more dangerous than Spartans or the Hive? I don't think so...

        Conversely, other players fear their counterparts more than annoying buggers.

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        • #5
          Yeah, but that's crazy--the expanding hostile lifeform two miles away, full of brain-eating maggots, is much more dangerous than the guy on the other side of Planet, even if he does follow a wasteful and inefficient economic theory (or whatever). Simplest explanation: the fungus/worm complex got to be the dominant lifeform by subtly encouraging any and all competitors to ignore it and show extreme aggression towards each other. The fungus/worms move in on their territory when they murder each other. The humans are just the latest victim.
          1011 1100
          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Elok View Post
            Yeah, but that's crazy--the expanding hostile lifeform two miles away, full of brain-eating maggots, is much more dangerous than the guy on the other side of Planet, even if he does follow a wasteful and inefficient economic theory (or whatever). Simplest explanation: the fungus/worm complex got to be the dominant lifeform by subtly encouraging any and all competitors to ignore it and show extreme aggression towards each other. The fungus/worms move in on their territory when they murder each other. The humans are just the latest victim.
            That's an interesting theory but you don't need to go that far imo.

            Focusing on the worms would require a planetary alliance - even if you were to terminate all worms in your area it wouldn't be useful since worms could easily replicate on the other side of the planet and eventually come back to you indefinitely, so the only effective method would be to kill them all at the same time everywhere which can only be done by a collective strike reuniting every faction - against the worms but I for one wouldn't trust warmongers like Yang, Miriam or Santiago for a second.

            Any alliance is out of the question since they're, as you often say yourself, lunatics and volatile.

            Who's to say Santiago is not going to turn back on the alliance and take me out right after a difficult fight against the worms when she was supposed to serve as reinforcement?

            The relationship the factions are experiencing on this planet is built from day one on mistrust, hatred of each other and possibly revenge for past history. There's no way you're going to unite even half of the factions towards this common goal, especially since worms are relatively dangerous, nowhere near a direct and overwhelming threat to anyone.

            Therefore, the only course of action remaining is for anyone to crank out troops and brace for future inevitable conflicts between factions, hoping worms don't get in the way too much.



            Have you also considered that worms serve, when killed, as a source of energy?

            In a way, letting them be and kill them only from time to time when necessary without exterminating them serves as an energy farm, which anyone would be happy about.
            Last edited by Morgan Everett; May 16, 2014, 17:03.

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            • #7
              I like the explanation that latent psionic powers are used as kind of a Jedi mind trick. Play competitors off on each other while mostly avoiding direct conflict.

              Though there are much more mundane explanations possible too.

              Most factions are fighting the planet constantly. Both with military and formers.

              It's more of a balancing act. Planet isn't imminently dangerous to the survival of the factions, it just needs to be contained, kept out of the agriculture (until it becomes the agriculture) even though it is a constant threat. Other factions aren't always at odds, but when they are the danger is much more imminent. The rewards for conquering an opposing faction are greater too.

              Farmers on Earth are constantly at war with various pests. These pests can cause real damage economically, and while we have tools to largely mitigate their effect on crops, eliminating them entirely (outside the farms) would be extremely costly and almost surely detrimental to us long-term. You can burn huge swaths of grassland, and in a few weeks the grass will be back. While you can all but eliminate growth on small plots of land, it would take a colossal effort to achieve that on a wide scale. Some organisms (various soil borne pathogens) we simply have no economically viable remedy for except to avoid it with crops that are susceptible. So if we assume that there's no economically viable pesticide to use on the worms/fungus, and that it's growth rate is explosive, then on the scale of turns (years) it would make sense that it sticks around. Even if you did send out a fire team to clear a few hectares here and there, it could pop right back up. You'd need a concerted effort over a long period of time to clear enough land for farms.

              The scale in the game is rather unrealistic in favor of clearing compared to the investment and size of a tile as is. The output from land can pay for it's cleaning in a year or two. The upkeep cost on a former is ~1 production per year, and the lifespan of a former long enough that the build costs are insignificant. Yet it only takes a former 4 years to clear a tile that represents a vast area of land.

              Also there is incentive to keep the worms and fungus around. From pretty early on in the game it becomes clear that there are benefits to be derived from the worms. They can be militarized. They give income. The fungus starts to become productive land. So I think it would make a lot of sense to not try to eliminate it completely, both from a gameplay stance, and one of lore surrounding the game.
              Last edited by Aeson; May 16, 2014, 17:30.

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              • #8
                This thread reminds me of Starcraft.

                I've always been a Zerg player.

                You would think Zerg - who are essentially monsters with big teeth - don't stand a chance against Protoss super gimmicky troops but they kick ass and often overcome Protoss forces.

                In many ways, Zergs can be compared to worms in this game:

                - Zergs are powerful because they replicate extremely fast and overcrowd any area in no time, individually they are weak. In a much similar way, a single pack of worms doesn't do much damage. However, if you were to be attacked by dozens of packs of these worms at the same time you would probably be overwhelmed and therefore crushed.

                - Zergs, supposedly, rival with highly-advanced civilizations like the Protoss because they are bred by extremely powerful queens who can alter purposely the DNA ( or something similar ) of their offspring so the baby monsters have bigger teeth, acid saliva that can pierce through any armor and so on. Of course, they won't be as good as geared up troops but their overly superior number undoubtedly compensates for that.

                Presumably, worms are created by Planet to be well-suited against humans and their machines, it's possible they emit electromagnetic waves and can pierce through any type of armor with special chemical compound that they produce or whatever.

                The point is, this kind of nature vs technology is common in video games and the science fiction genre in general.

                Technology doesn't always win.
                Last edited by Morgan Everett; May 16, 2014, 17:44.

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                • #9
                  Knowledge about human geneology dosen't nessecary mean knowledge about alien ditto, so biological warfare against planet life isn't obvious,

                  I would compare worms with wolfes - they are out there and you prepare to handle them if they come to visit, but there are no reason to go for a hunt to exterminate them - it's simply not worth the effort. Not even with robots - those ressources are better used against other humans.
                  With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                  Steven Weinberg

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                  • #10
                    Here's the thing: while, in gameplay terms, the worms are mostly a persistent nuisance, "in-universe," they're Lovecraftian horrors. When a worm slips past your defenses and takes out a colony pod, you say "dang it!" and, after harvesting your planetpearls, queue up the nearest base to build another. But the top news story next morning in your capital goes: "Several dozen families, including small children, were ambushed by native parasites en route to a new colony site. The parasites, a swarm of four-inch psychic maggots, drove them all insane with fear before killing them and laying eggs in their brains. We're on the scene with the bereaved families of the departed, who are planning a memorial service . . ."

                    Then come the tearful interviews, the investigations, the smarmy tribute videos, and so on. That's not the kind of thing I can picture human beings becoming acclimated to or accepting. Even after they've realized the impracticality of wiping them out in the short term, they'd still dream of a world where they didn't have to worry about getting tortured to death by armies of crawling (or flying) invertebrates. That's the kind of thing that inspires doomsday cults, not some agricultural pest. Closer to Viking raids than anything else I can think of, except people sometimes traded with the Vikings, and they were obviously human.

                    Anyway, next question: in a world where even basic infantry carry fission reactors around with them, how come nobody ever thinks to build a nuclear bomb?
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                    • #11
                      Nuclear war is just MAD -- Mutually Assured Destruction. Planet Busters and Tectonic Missiles are more fun.
                      I am on a mission to see how much coffee it takes to actually achieve time travel.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Elok View Post
                        Here's the thing: while, in gameplay terms, the worms are mostly a persistent nuisance, "in-universe," they're Lovecraftian horrors. When a worm slips past your defenses and takes out a colony pod, you say "dang it!" and, after harvesting your planetpearls, queue up the nearest base to build another. But the top news story next morning in your capital goes: "Several dozen families, including small children, were ambushed by native parasites en route to a new colony site. The parasites, a swarm of four-inch psychic maggots, drove them all insane with fear before killing them and laying eggs in their brains. We're on the scene with the bereaved families of the departed, who are planning a memorial service . . ."

                        Then come the tearful interviews, the investigations, the smarmy tribute videos, and so on. That's not the kind of thing I can picture human beings becoming acclimated to or accepting. Even after they've realized the impracticality of wiping them out in the short term, they'd still dream of a world where they didn't have to worry about getting tortured to death by armies of crawling (or flying) invertebrates. That's the kind of thing that inspires doomsday cults, not some agricultural pest. Closer to Viking raids than anything else I can think of, except people sometimes traded with the Vikings, and they were obviously human.
                        The same could be said with hurricanes in some areas of the USA. They destroy cities, strike unexpectedly, kill people without regard for their age or gender, are unstoppable. Do people leave these areas out of fear?

                        Nope, they stay 'on base' and hope for the best.

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                        • #13
                          But hurricanes really aren't that big a deal, for the prepared. My wife's from Florida, where "hurricane" means "you're stuck indoors for a few days," nothing more. She laughs at the way people up here in Maryland panic over hurricanes. Most storms are only dangerous when they hit areas that aren't prepared--Sandy and New York, or Katrina and the crumbling dams around New Orleans--or when they're freakishly enormous. Both generally happen too rarely for people to live in fear of them, albeit climate change could change that. Anyway, much the same could be said for earthquakes and Californians, or tornadoes in Oklahoma, or blizzards in Vermont; whatever the natural threat, long-term residents find ways to mitigate the risks.

                          Anyway, humans react much more strongly to deliberate attacks than to natural disasters or accidents. 9/11 killed about 4,000 people, which sounds bad until you realize we lost three times as many to drunk drivers that year (and most years before or since). Ditto heart disease and cancer. Also, 9/11 was an exceptional event we could easily have prevented at multiple points. But because OMG somebody attacked us, we lost our minds. It took years of wars for us to get over it. The only thing that elicits a comparable panic is the threat of infectious disease--and mindworms combine elements of both.
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elok View Post

                            Anyway, humans react much more strongly to deliberate attacks than to natural disasters or accidents. 9/11 killed about 4,000 people, which sounds bad until you realize we lost three times as many to drunk drivers that year (and most years before or since). Ditto heart disease and cancer. Also, 9/11 was an exceptional event we could easily have prevented at multiple points. But because OMG somebody attacked us, we lost our minds. It took years of wars for us to get over it. The only thing that elicits a comparable panic is the threat of infectious disease--and mindworms combine elements of both.
                            Do a lot of people in the US question the official version of events? According to European media it's around a third of the American population, but I mistrust them as much as CNN.

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                            • #15
                              I wasn't comparing the threat of mindworms to the threat of agricultural pests of course. What I was trying to illustrate is that it's extremely hard to keep pests out of even very small areas of land. This is with the pests posing little to no direct physical threat to farmers trying to keep them at bay, and humanity having had millenia to establish itself as the dominant species on Earth.

                              Though there are snakes, bees, and mosquitoes that still kill people. We could wipe out mosquitoes and save hundreds of thousands of lives ... but we still spend more money to fight wars instead. (And killing all the mosquitoes wouldn't be the right thing to do in the long run anyways.)

                              For a group of colonists to land on a new world where close to half the surface area is infested by a dangerous pest ... it would be a herculean task to wipe out the mindworms and Fungus in even a small portion of Planet. Just as the game glosses over the mindworm attacks, it glosses over the difficulty that Formers are having clearing the Fungus.

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