New player, advice needed.

[Aeson]

Double Login, a second account.

And where in the world did the giant avatar come from?

I've upped the avatar sizes to allow for more modern standards. Up to 180x180 doesn't break the theme (except in some cases, like "What's New" ... but I will get that fixed).

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

You remember that you're talking to a noted avatar artist?

[551262]

All I can say is if you like planning for the later game you'd best not find yourself in a game with me.

I usually like to start "general invasions" of everybody once I get fusion power and chaos guns. Chaos Guns are easy to gun for but fusion power takes a little more work. Along the way I'll bring out needlejets and bomb boreholes, sensors, bonus resource squares and so on. Chaos Guns beat the stuffing out of plasma steel armor, which most people have by the time they come out, and they'll tackle Silksteel Armor, if someone has it, which I'll courteously swipe with a probe team.

Planning for the late game is all and well, but it doesn't work out very well when you spawn right next to Yang, for instance.

In one game, I invaded every faction in the same turn. The University got two fusion destroyer transports loaded, Yang got three with one more on the way, I think everybody else who was a little more passive just got one each. The game was over in like ten turns.

I can start attacking earlier, depending on proximity, so I could have impact infantry or missile rovers fooling around before chaos guns come out. As long as I keep a foot in their territory and keep pushing a non-warring faction to do warfare, I've got the tempo. Thus, my target is kept constantly doing something other than building up. Why should I fight them in the later game on their terms versus attack now on my terms?

[Morgan Everett]

But by expressing disgust with hypocrisy, you are assuming the existence of a moral standard yourself, aren't you? I think most people stop being nihilists at the precise second you punch them in the nuts; they then acquire a profound moral conviction that assault is morally wrong, if nothing else.

Not necessarily, imo. One can be disgusted by someone's hypocrisy not because one thinks it's wrong but because it's a direct threat to one's interests. Someone downright hypocritical will confuse you and manipulate you at his convenience while a mindless brute will constitute an expected danger. Therefore, in a battlefield, any reasonable person would much rather be fighting with someone whose motivation is clear.

Manipulators are much more powerful and efficient than basic straightforward enemies, everybody knows that. I don't think any nihilist would blame them for their treacherous ways, however they would piss in their pants for knowing their opponent is of the toughest. If your neighbor has bigger guns than you, you might be disgusted by his power without thinking for a second that his actions are morally 'wrong', think about the USSR and the USA for instance.

I don't think any of their respective leaders honestly gave a damn about morality, but they were disgusted by each other because they were equal rivals for some time. The same can be said for those who are disgusted with hypocritical manipulators, it's pure jealousy.

Consequently, I'd call this a reasoning out of fear or a mere reaction to self-preservation, not a contradictory thought.

Speaking of which, I don't believe nihilism is self-contradictory. Clearly, if you reduce nihilism to 'To not believe in anything' it doesn't make much sense. But it's not what it means today and I think you know that just as much as I do.

[Aeson]

I just uploaded a SMAX Leader avatar set. They're the new 180x180 size. Slightly touched up/cropped from the game files. I'm not completely satisfied with the result (the cropping was algorithmic, I'm lazy) so if someone wants to make a better version of them ...

I'm also going to fire up the game for the first time tonight I think. I used to be a real fan of Zak with a Green bent.

[Morgan Everett]

At first I didn't think large avatars could be a problem, now that we all have them I must say it looks kinda silly.

[Elok]

While I'm not averse to continuing this discussion, we've reached the point where it could get personally pretty quickly, and I'd rather stay within the lines. If you want to keep going, I'd start a thread in the Off-Topic (the one that says "abandon all hope, you who enter here," not the civil one).

[Morgan Everett]

While I'm not averse to continuing this discussion, we've reached the point where it could get personally pretty quickly, and I'd rather stay within the lines. If you want to keep going, I'd start a thread in the Off-Topic (the one that says "abandon all hope, you who enter here," not the civil one).

Don't take this the wrong way. I don't have any grudge against you and as far as I'm concerned it's only an exchange of opinions. I don't believe you're wrong nor do I believe I'm right. I'm merely reading your thoughts and giving you an alternative point of view in return. I know some people think they're better than anyone else, but that's not me.

Peace out, you've been very helpful to me and I truly appreciate your presence in this thread.

[Elok]

Fair enough.

Back to the topic. I wish I remembered more of the actual gameplay, and what worked. IIRC, CEO Aaron's advice for winning as Morgan involved IMMENSE micromanagement. Basically, shun minerals almost entirely; crawl lots of nutrients and use your population almost exclusively for specialists, since you get higher output that way. The cost of rush-buying drops dramatically after the first row is completed (or something like that), so once you've got those first few minerals, swoop in and buy it. Supposedly, this gives you a wicked edge over people who still bother with old-fashioned production, but I think I'd go insane monitoring cities that closely every turn. Honestly, you'll probably find what's best for you just by experimenting.

[Morgan Everett]

Fair enough.

Back to the topic. I wish I remembered more of the actual gameplay, and what worked. IIRC, CEO Aaron's advice for winning as Morgan involved IMMENSE micromanagement. Basically, shun minerals almost entirely; crawl lots of nutrients and use your population almost exclusively for specialists, since you get higher output that way. The cost of rush-buying drops dramatically after the first row is completed (or something like that), so once you've got those first few minerals, swoop in and buy it. Supposedly, this gives you a wicked edge over people who still bother with old-fashioned production, but I think I'd go insane monitoring cities that closely every turn. Honestly, you'll probably find what's best for you just by experimenting.

Who's this CEO Aaron everyone keeps talking about? I've seen a few posts of him and he seemed more interested in Free Drones than in Morganites.

[Elok]

I recall him as the consummate Morgan player. Good at the game in general, too. Among his sayings: "Police State is like crack. At first it feels good. Later, you can't stop using it. Finally, it kills you."

[Morgan Everett]

I recall him as the consummate Morgan player. Good at the game in general, too. Among his sayings: "Police State is like crack. At first it feels good. Later, you can't stop using it. Finally, it kills you."

Could you explain to me the benefits of a Police State? I suppose he's implicitly referring to Yang, isn't he?

Also, why does everyone say it's difficult to win with Morgan?

Certainly the population limit can be frustrating but can't it be overcome with hab complexes? Isn't big bases the opposite of what a Morganites player wants? It seems that by having small bases you will get the most of your economy bonuses.

About the support penalty, it's not that crippling if you rush for clean reactor and wait a little before choosing Democracy.

About the Wealth and Free Market choice, can't they be switched at one's convenience?

What's the real catch with the Morganites? I fail to see it because every downside they have vanishes with time, and the same cannot be said for other factions like the Free Drones or The Believers.

[Elok]

WRT Police State, Yang is actually the one player who should basically ALWAYS run the Police State SE, because (while the game itself doesn't notify you of it) he is totally immune to efficiency penalties. He can be running Police State and Planned, -4 efficiency, an absolute kiss of death for any other faction, and still have perfectly normal efficiency. Since he can't run democracy, there's really no reason not to switch to PS and never look back--unless you want to go fundy, which isn't that great with him since he has no cash to spend on probe teams.

For other players, however, Police State is a mixed bag at best. Unless it's really low (going from memory here), the Support value doesn't have a particularly dramatic effect. Even before Clean Reactors, -1 support means one fewer mineral per base. No biggie. Police is nice, but if you're running PS, and your bases expand to within its police limit, you can't switch away without suddenly facing drone riots everywhere. Meanwhile, -2 efficiency is NOT nice, especially when you give up Democracy's +2 (and +2 growth) to get it. Democracy's penalty is higher support, no big deal--mainly you miss the free minerals from a new base.

With Morgan, you're forced to abandon pop-booming and sub in horizontal growth. You don't discover hab complexes for a while, and even when you do you have to build them; until then, you only get a higher population to work with by constantly building colony pods. More bases also stretch your limited forces thinner, require more forming, eventually expose you to efficiency losses and even "efficiency drones," or whatever they're called . . . these problems can be mitigated, but compared to building creches and DemoPlanning that's a lot more hassle and spent money/minerals/time. You're right about the support limit--no biggie, really. I would use democracy, support limit or no; you don't need the growth factor, but if you're spreading out a lot you want efficiency.

Re: Wealth and Free Market, I'd say you should just run Wealth, if you're using Morgan. The additional commerce isn't really worth FM's costs, once you've got the killer energy bonus. Sorry, GTG, things to do, more later hopefully.

[Elok]

Wealth has a much gentler penalty--you can compensate for bad morale by snatching up the Command Nexus, or building command centers at bases, or just using the Children's Creche to nullify morale penalties for base defense--and adds the benefit of industry. Of course, as Morgan, you'll be rush-buying a lot, but the beauty of industry is that it reduces costs for that too. -5 police basically cripples you militarily, and -3 planet is a distinct nuisance you can't really compensate for.

You said, "vanishes with time." WITH TIME are the keywords there. Miriam never loses her technological incompetence, but she's a menace right out of the box--lots of strong troops and powerful probes. An aggressive Miriam next door can make Morgan's life miserable in the early game; she's hard to placate, you can't compete with her militarily, and because of her probe strength your potent wealth is less effective at buying her stuff out from under her (with fundamentalism, she's plus-four--doesn't that make her bribe-proof or something? Not good!). If you meet her late in the game, with a huge tech advantage and your growth limit neutralized, you can crush her, sure. But you can't always count on that. IIRC, Hab Domes come quite late in the game, and while you're teching up players like Lal and Yang have been using their superior growth to rack up an advantage. Getting tough at the end of the game is no good if you're in a hopelessly inferior position by the time you get there.

I should add that time and tech can neutralize many players' weaknesses. Zak can at least alleviate his drone problems with Virtual World and such, and the Hunter-Seeker lets him laugh at Miriam's spooks. Santiago can boost her industry with Planned, which gets her up to parity if no further. Or she can focus on boosting morale, so her fewer units hit harder. Deirdre and Lal's weaknesses were never all that huge a deal to begin with, except for Deirdre not having FM. Lal's slight efficiency hit is easily countered by his insane vertical growth potential.

Mind you, this is all going from memory. Haven't had the time to sit down and play lately. Can't speak for the expansion factions either, since I only ever played vanilla SMAC.

[Morgan Everett]

Double Login, a second account.

And where in the world did the giant avatar come from?

Well, at first I created an account just so I could ask a few questions about the game. Then I realized the community was made of nice decent folks which led me to want to stay for a while longer.

Consequently, I figured I might as well create a nickname I actually like. I won't be using the other account from now on.

Speaking of which, is there a way to terminate the old account?