Does the Hive always eradicate the other AIs?

[jez9999]

So, every game of SMAC I've played so far, the Hive may take a while but after maybe 100 mission years it will ALWAYS start building a ton of units (mainly infantry), and crush every other AI player. I can fight the Hive of course but the other AIs can't. To me this ruins the game a bit; it pretty much always ends up being lots of my bases vs. lots of Hive bases.

Does this happen for everyone? Is there a way to weaken the Hive's aggressive nature a little... or make the other AI players defend a bit better against the Hive?

[kittenOFchaos]

In the default game - yes.

I've modded Kyrubs modification of SMAC to improve armour values and that all factions want to build plenty of military units. Even then the Hive is often the most formidable opponent. In my current game as Sparta, my elite units are doing all they can to help the University survive - Hive have them down to one base and have already driven the Believers off the continent. It is shaping up to be a terrific game.

[jez9999]

Yeah but isn't it kind of ridiculous that you always up defending others against the Hive? There must be a way to get the game less predictable than that.

[rod87]

Maybe you could modify the faction's bonuses or penalties, like making them lose their +1 to Growth, or give them a -1 to Planet (since they are so industrialist).

In relation to this, I myself think that the penalty to Industry that the Spartans have is a bit stupid. I mean, come on, what general in history has ever seen industry and means of production as redundant? It's one of the main sources of military supremacy. However I'm too scared to alter the 'balance' of the game if I change it for something else, like a -1 to Planet or to Economy (due to the inflated defense budget).

[Lord Avalon]

Per the SMAC manual, p. 13: the Spartans' "extravagant military needs weigh down industrial operations"; or p. 126: "-1 Industry (extravagant weapons are costly)." I think it fits the faction's concept.

[jez9999]

Maybe you could modify the faction's bonuses or penalties, like making them lose their +1 to Growth, or give them a -1 to Planet (since they are so industrialist).

Interesting. Given that you can indeed modify the factions' properties, has anyone on these boards taken this a bit further and got a list of tweaks they make to the factions to balance things out a bit and make the game more fun that way, whilst still keeping the factions true to their original 'ideaology'? I don't like the option to randomize their personalities because it obviously screws up the whole point that their leaders have a certain viewpoint.

[waab]

Do you play with Kyrubs patch? Reason for the question is that I have not played that many games with that patch to confirm if Hive always crush rest of the AI. If you don’t play with that patch I highly recommend you to install it.

However from the standard game I can easily tell you that the Hive is the strongest AI and the easiest to play as a Human. The problem with the Hive is that there is no real drawback to run police state / planned. This is due to the fact too the immunity to efficiency penalties (arrived after the first patch). This means in an early game the dear Chairman can muster the following faction:
+2 police
+2 support
+1 prod (+2 with planned)
+1 growth (+3 with planned)
-2 economy

+1 growth in combination with +1 prod means easy to ICS.
+1 prod in combination with +2 support means huge armies
+2 police means no real need for infrastructure beyond recycling tanks and the right wonders. If Yang get command nexus...

So trying to scale back the Hive might start with:
* remove immunity to efficiency and instead ad Robust, Effic

This change will mean the following with police state:
+2 police
+2 support
+1 prod (+2 with planned)
+1 growth (+3 with planned)
-2 economy
-1 efficiency (-2 with planned)

The Hive will still be strong, but the impact of new bases will be less. This is due to that -2 efficiency will mean that the little energy Hive gains will be lost and new bases will have more drones.

I am not sure that that will be enough, however it puts Hive somewhere between the orgional game and the first patch.

[jez9999]

How do you make those changes, waab? Does it mean hacking the executable?

[waab]

No need for advanced hacking methods. Each faction has a *txt file with the special faction rules which can be found in the game folder. For the Hive faction you have a file called HIVE.txt. Find the row that states Immunity, Effic and change it to Robust, Effic.

[jez9999]

Has anyone else on these boards already got a set of tweaks for these files to make the game a bit more fairly balanced between the factions (without any change to the actual executable)? Sounds like the kind of thing people may have already done.

[waab]

Has anyone else on these boards already got a set of tweaks for these files to make the game a bit more fairly balanced between the factions (without any change to the actual executable)? Sounds like the kind of thing people may have already done.

Much of the old Mod work was done before Kyrubs AI patch, however the largest mod change is probarbly SNAC by Shining1:

http://apolyton.net/smac/Files/mods/snac_readme.txt

Can find it under downloads:

http://apolyton.net/local_links/links/c-modpack-178

Problem with that mod is that it was designed to strengthen the AI by removing things that was broken before Kyrubs AI patch. So it is a good way to find ideas on how to strengthen individual factions, however the factions is designed around the limitations of SNAC and the old SMAC AI.

The problem with changing the AI is the influence of humans. Morgan is often seen as one of the worst AIs, and is very hard to play as human. BUT if you now how to controll Morgan you can become really powerfull if you survive the initial rush. So how do you increase the strength of the AI without making Morgan to powerfull for a human player? So if you want to change a faction you must understand how to play it and understand the limitations of the AI.

So if you want to play with Kyrubs AI patch, and you want as the AI actualy knows how to terraform, the only way is trial and error when it comes to AI performance.

[jez9999]

Where is Kyrubs AI patch?

[waab]

Where is Kyrubs AI patch?

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/195007-SMAC-444-%28AI-experiment%29

[Hagen0]

The Hive is the strongest AI. But there will still be games in which they are conquered early or remain insignificant. It just happens to them less often than to others. Play a few more games before you start changing the factions. This can have unwelcome consequences.

[jez9999]

Much of the old Mod work was done before Kyrubs AI patch, however the largest mod change is probarbly SNAC by Shining1:

http://apolyton.net/smac/Files/mods/snac_readme.txt

Can find it under downloads:
http://apolyton.net/local_links/links/c-modpack-178

Heh. The download is broken. Links to what appears to be an HTML page with the text:

The requested URL '/%7Emarkg/apolyton/smac/snac12.zip' resolves to a file which is marked executable but is not a CGI file; retrieving it is forbidden.