Minor Newb Questions

[Lord Avalon]

Thanks for the tip, CEO Aaron, I'll have to try that. The builder in me likes putting down solar collectors and supply crawlers on energy specials, and hates the loss to inefficiency at bases far from HQ, so I figured why not just send it to HQ? And playing on huge maps, rather than go into conquer and win mode, I conquer and conolidate and (terrain permitting) oh here's an open area where I can build an energy farm.

[CEO Aaron]

Yeah, there are definite technology breakpoints for going with a nutrient/specialist strategy, and the type of micromanagement you do is different, but the seed investment is smaller and the eventual payoff is immensely bigger. The big breakpoints are: Fusion Power for Engineers (one specialist who produces 3 econ 2 labs), Orbital Spaceflight for Sky Hydroponics Labs and (Functionally halves nutrient requirements of your bases), and Super-Tensile Solids for Hab Domes (Uncaps base population for INSANE specialist counts).

If a Super Science Base still appeals to you, you can build a nutrient farm in lieu of an energy farm for your capital, and and pump it to the citizen limit (255?). Though techs are tallied, it's quite likely to waste a lot of that research income. Each base adds its lab total to the accumulated tally, and any leftovers (for that base) are discarded once a tech is completed, so if your capital is producing 1000 labs and you need 100 to finish the next future tech, the leftover 900 disappear into the ether.

[Elok]

Is there an easier or more boring way to win than diplomatic with Lal? [/largelyrhetoricalquestion]

[CEO Aaron]

Not really, no. Just grab the Empath Guild and pump your population. Of course, you'll still have holdouts, but it's giving the game a short-shrift, imo. Single player, I always win by Transcendence or Conquest.

Oh, one other piece of advice that hasn't been covered here: Never accept the surrender of an enemy faction that you share a continent with. I've had numerous episodes where I've accepted the Allegiance of an enemy AI, and after many, many turns, they stab me in the back. I think there's some glitch where the AI gets pissed off at you if you share a land border, and the reputation drop keeps functioning even after they've surrendered to you. Bottom line, push them off your main continent before you let them give up.

Oh, and related to that, don't speak to an enemy you're pruning off your landmass, if you expect to accept their allegiance later. Once you refuse their total surrender, they'll go into 'fight to the death' mode.

[Flubber]

Oh, one other piece of advice that hasn't been covered here: Never accept the surrender of an enemy faction that you share a continent with. I've had numerous episodes where I've accepted the Allegiance of an enemy AI, and after many, many turns, they stab me in the back. I think there's some glitch where the AI gets pissed off at you if you share a land border, and the reputation drop keeps functioning even after they've surrendered to you. Bottom line, push them off your main continent before you let them give up.

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Here I'll disagree with you a bit . With a close vassal you can

1. Conquer them enough that they surrender

2. Immediately demand their good bases. My recollection is that an AI will often give you everything other than their HQ so doing this just after conquering their HQ is best.

3. Gift them some small bases scattered around the planet
a.to serve as helicopter landing points and
b. to lesson micromanagement of said bases
c. to eliminate losses of tech or money to capture or probe
d. To sometimes get trade

4. Also frequently gift your vassal tech-- my practice is to give or sell them each and every tech that any of the AI have and nothing that I solely own

With some semi-frequent and often self-serving gifts, I have generally had little problem keeping the slave nations as useful supporters. Sometimes the support is unwelcome like when they gift me 20 outdated and badly designed units that all darw support from one of my bases but even that gift can be useful if I can disband enough at a base for the their minerals. Its also nice when they build a base in a very useful position near an enemy of yours with whom THEY have peace. IT can be quite a shocker if suddenly you have that slave gifting you the base and the combination of their units and yours mean you have a super strong force in their midst

[Flubber]

Is there an easier or more boring way to win than diplomatic with Lal? [/largelyrhetoricalquestion]

Against the AI ?? NO--- although large map transcend with ZAK comes close

[CEO Aaron]

Here I'll disagree with you a bit . With a close vassal you can

I'm not trying to say that vassals aren't useful to have, I love having subservient AIs to trade with. That CEO in my name isn't just for show. My point is that in my experience, having your bases next to the vassal's bases will often result in the vassal betraying you. Also, unless you're at really horrific levels of inefficiency, or have truly eepic (Like Morgan with the Governorship) trade bonuses, a regular base is almost certainly going to produce more net income for your faction than what you'll get from trade from a base you give to the AI, especially if you use the nutrient-focused, specialist-driven strategy I recommend.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

CEO Aaron, Flubber, Elok et.al.

Stumbled across this thread. Wow great blast from the past seeing the old Sikander builder thread. I have forgotten almost all that stuff but do recall people(specialists) were a far more potent source of research and energy than were crawling raw energy back. A crawler set on a condensor farm got something like 6 nuts supporting 3 pop points before hydro sats made it 6 pop points. That was a lot more equivalent energy points (top ended at 36 equivalent energy/crawler with all transcendi specialists) depending your choice of specialist vs. a crawler bringing back energy from either boreholes or solar array farms. Plus specialists never suffered from efficiency losses if the base was far flung fromthe capital. Memory serves it was one means to capture enemy bases turn them all into specialists (who cares if they starved) so they couldn't riot and you got some productive efective energy from it. It seemed a more humane alternative than eradicating the useless base or nerve stapling it.


Wonder where Sikander went off to? He was a good egg.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Now that I have upgraded all my computers to Vista and or WIN7, I wonder if I can still reinstall and play SMAC/SMAX?

Any suggestions?

Too bad they never ported to IoS, would be perfect for my IPad.

OMG - Nevermind I just went to GOG.com looks like I get SMAC afterall. Sweet.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ohh just rememebred a small bit of arcana from th recesses of my memory. When setting down new colonies, obviously build roads to get turn advantage in placement of pods but also look to putting a sensor down on the square you plan to make your new colony upon. Sensor defensive bonus will apply to the unit wihtin. Two reasons it can give you fair warning to the poppping up of worms and make you likely to be able to withsatnd the attacks Specially if the unit is upgraded into a trance configuration.

[CEO Aaron]

Not just sensors can go there, though I'd agree they're probably the best and most flexible pick. You can also drop any terraforming which affects tiles outside it: Echelon mirrors or Condensers.

Yah, I may play with getting SMAX to run on my Win7 setup. Talking up SMAX on 'poly definitely gets me in a nostalgic mood.

[Lord Avalon]

I'm playing a Lib level game as Yang. Previously I'd be energy poor with him, but I've been crawling nuts and alternating librarians and techs with extra pop (like when there weren't enough good/developed squares to work), and damn! I'm upgrading units like Morgan! Also previously I'd miss out on a few early Special Projects due to poor funding for research and them not being on my main research path (or not as important as other ones), but this game I managed to build them all, even when someone started one for which I hadn't discovered the tech.

I also discovered that a base has to reach pop 5 before specialists other than doctor are available.

Per Vel's guide, I had been building bases mostly three squares apart, and when bases get larger, this leads to pop becoming specialists because not all squares are available to work. But I do need to check and change them from doctors/empaths where I can.

Guess I'm going to have to try more games at Thinker.

[Elok]

All right, I've now won one of every type of victory except economic. I'll save that for when I try Morgan. Is there any particular strategy Santiago lends herself to? I'm sure she has some use, but she looks like a sort of half-assed Miriam. If I'm going to play a psycho, I'd rather be a psycho with a ton of meh soldiers than one with a few expensive ones. I just played Yang, and that industry bonus is awesome for rushing out of the gate. I hate to think of how the reverse must be--that's why I'm going to try her sixth, right before--yuk--Miriam. Is that her appeal? Not as good at aggression as Miriam, but not stuck in the stone-age?

[Lord Avalon]

I think Santiago and Miriam tend towards the momentum side of playing, probably on a standard map or smaller. I prefer Santiago because you start with Doctrine: Mobility (free rover - I prefer driving to my invasion to walking), +2 Morale, free prototypes, and don't have a research penalty. (Also, I have more of an aversion to the religious fanatic than the survivalist.)

Beeline Nonlinear Math, crank out 4 Impact Rovers and go conquer your neighbor for fun and profit. If your neighbor is Yang, you might need a few more. Of course you've built Command Centers to boost your troops, right? And when you get to Police State, that'll boost your Support.

"Not as good at aggression as Miriam..." Well, at the start, not quite, but Doctrine: Mobility also lets you build Command Centers, so add that to your Morale bonus, and you churn out Hardened troops (Veteran on defense).

If you want, you could turn on Spoils of War to steal a tech when you conquer a base.

Yang's Industry and Growth boni are nice, as well as the lack of Efficiency penalty. Also switching to Police State as soon as you have the EC means more free units: a garrison, couple formers, and still room for a colony pod. And Planned means more Industry and Growth.

[CEO Aaron]

Santiago is, in my opinion, best played with a hybrid style of play. Pure momentum, she's outclassed by the superior production capability of Yang and the sheer numbers which can be fielded by Miriam. Even Zakarov makes a better momentum faction than Santiago, since they can reach Impact Rovers earlier and build them faster.

What's Santiago's secret weapon? Police rating. If any faction is excellently suited to go in a specialist-heavy, nutrient heavy strategy, it's the Spartans. Run Planned/Democracy and pile on as much nutrient production as you can. A pair of 1/1/1 police infantry cost two paltry rows of minerals, and can keep 4 drones quelled and working. That and a recreation commons will keep 6 population in workers picking fruit to feed your pile of specialists. Once you pick up clean reactor, they don't even cost upkeep. You'll be able to maintain a permanent population boom and spread 7 population bases all over the map without a care about efficiency. Staying out of Free Market lets you explore the map unhindered, where you can clean up on colony pods and escort your probe foils over the seas to clean out the enemy databanks or tech and credits. You can trade techs as well as swipe them, and being the most aggressive explorer will often let you clean up on techs as you act as a broker across Chiron.

When you're ready to start curbstomping your neighbors, switch into Fundamentalism/Planned/Knowledge, and rock your elite units. Liberal use of artillery is highly recommended. A 6/1/1 artillery is a mere 2 rows, and can delivery a savage pounding to your opponents. Your units are comparatively expensive, so take every opportunity to soften up your foes so you can minimize losses. Getting bogged down in an attrition war does not play to the Spartan strengths. Obviously the Command Nexus is a fabulous grab for you, as is the Citizens' Defence Force. Later, the Cloning Vats lets you Run Demo/Green/Knowledge for paradigm efficiency. The Ascetic Virtues is another great pick, as it beefs up your police rating even more, letting you garrison yet another 1/1/1 clean police.

One last thing: Do NOT run Police State, unless you're Yang, who can run it without drawbacks. Police State has what I refer to as the cocaine effect. At first, it feels great, later, you can't quit using it, and finally, it kills you.