SMAC Rebalancing Tweaks (give your thoughts)

[Harry_Pothead]

I went through the alpha and faction txt files and made some balancing tweaks. One thing to note - I only play SMAC. I don't have SMAX, nor do I ever want it.

SECRET PROJECTS

Cloning Vats - Removed from the game. It was horribly overpowered and completely messed up the finely tuned social engineering balance that makes the game so interesting. (I removed it by changing its prereq tech to User0, so the line is still in alpha.txt but the SP can never be built in an actual game)


SOCIAL ENGINEERING

Police State - no change

Democratic - penalty changed to -2 POLICE. The police penalty makes a lot more sense to me than a support penalty. So if you run demo, you can't nerve staple or use military units as police (barring the thought control SP)

Fundy - no change

Free Market - penalty changed to -3 PLANET -5 SUPPORT. Again, the support penalty makes more sense to me than a police penalty. Capitalism does not make for a peace loving population, but can make large armies difficult to support. Balance wise, it means that there is always a downside to running FM, instead of a downside only during war. The -5 support means all units cost 2 minerals, a heavy price to pay for the very powerful +2 econ. It also means that a faction can alleviate the support hit by running either FM + PS (right wing dictatorship) or FM + Power (military-industrial complex and mercenary organizations like Blackwater).

Planned - no change

Green - penalty changed to -2 INDUSTRY. Environmental controls means less industrial output.

Power - penalty changed to -2 GROWTH. Emphasis on war over children. The main reason I switched the the green and power penalties is to make it so that in order to run PS or Power to alleviate FM's support penalty, you have to take a growth penalty. If you go with PS, that means don't get Demo's +2 growth, and if you go with power, you get the -2 growth from that. In all, that means that if you decide to run FM with either PS or Power, your growth score will be at most 0 until Eudaimonia. Also note that with the Cloning Vats removed, there is no way around the penalty.

Knowledge - no change

Wealth - no change

Cybernetic - penalty changed to -3 SUPPORT. Cybernetic infrastructure requires a lot of maintenance. The Network Node SP then provides the maintenance for the cybernetic infrastructure.

Eudaimonic - penalty changed to -3 POLICE. I think a police penalty makes more sense than a morale penalty given the description of a Eudaimonic society. The citizens will be just as zealous in defending their society, but have less tolerance for expeditionary wars. Contrast that to the wealth SE choice where there truly is a decadence that saps the will to defend one's homeland. The police penalty also means that Demo+Eudaimonic means a -5 police, which is what one would expect from that SE combo. There is also no way to raise it since the SE choices that give + to police are also in politics and future society. The Ascetic SP can still give you a -4 if you're not Gaian, which means only 1 drone for overseas troops. Furthermore, the ability to nerve staple doesn't make sense with a Eudaimonic society.

Thought Control - penalty changed to -4 RESEARCH. Effective scientific research requires peer review, curiosity, and independent thought. Thought control heavily stifles all of this. I think this penalty makes A LOT more sense than the previous support penalty, and since the Cloning Vats are out, there's no way around it.


FACTIONS

I've given every faction a free facility, and compensated the Hive and University since they already had one.

Gaians - Free recycling tanks in every base (ecological experience)

Hive - Immune to negative morale modifiers (brainwashed soldiers) - this is balance compensation for the fact that they already had a free facility and now everyone's getting one.

Morgans - Free energy bank in every base (powerful banking institutions)
I also changed their faction penalty to -1 GROWTH (Starting a family means less personal wealth). I did this because with their previous factional support penalty, if they were to run FM with either PS or Power, they would be at -4 SUPPORT (-1-5+2) which still means 2 minerals per unit. Now they would be at -3 SUPPORT like every other faction save the Believers, which means only 1 mineral per unit.

Spartans - Free command center in every base (military infrastructure)

Believers - Free rec commons at every base (church groups)

Peacekeepers - Free children's creche at every base (child care and education of utmost importance)

University - Removed the drone per 4 citizens - this is balance compensation for the fact that they already had a free facility and now everyone's getting one.

[Harry_Pothead]

One more thing

I'd also like to limit social engineering changes to no more than once every twenty years, and to only allow one to change from the default to an advanced choice and vice versa. (eg. Frontier to PS, Fundy to Frontier, but not PS to Demo). If one wants to change from PS to Demo, you have to change from PS to Frontier, and then 20 years later you can change from Frontier to Demo. Basically, your society goes through a transition period, which is what the 20 years as Frontier represents.

I haven't figured out a way to change it in the game rules, though I play the restriction in single player "on my honor." I like it better. Though it can be a pain to write down when I last changed my SEs, and it would be nice to be able to put the rule in the actual game mechanics. If anyone knows of a way to do this, please let me know.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Hello Apolyton! These are my first posts.

[Whoha]

Clean Reactors and Probe teams cost no support.
Punishment spheres and specialist cities suffer no Police penalties.
Pop booming is done via Demo/planned/creche except for Morgan who can't run planned, and now can't even do GA pop booming.

Every faction does not need a free facility, and not all facilities are equal.

Under these rules, Demo/Planned/Wealth would probably be the SE selection to pick and stick with, Though Morgan would probably choose Fundy/Green/Wealth.

welcome to Apolyton.

[Joel Velasco]

Politics
- Police State : +2 Support, +2 Police, -2 Efficiency
- Democratic : +2 Efficiency, +2 Growth, [-2 Police]
- Fundy : +2 Probe, +1 Moral, -2 Research

While I want to call it something else, Democracy should opposite of Police State with a twist. For game mechanics +2 Growth is fine to be used for pop booms, and I agree – Police fits better than - Support.

Econ
- Free Market : +2 Econ, [-5 Support], -3 Planet
- Planned : [+2 Research], +1 Industry, [- 2 Probe]
- Green : +2 Efficiency, +2 Planet, [-2 Econ]

This is the section that I thought needed a lot of revision. Again I agree with the thought of -5 Support would be a harsher balancing effect than Police. In planned, I did not see + Growth as a product of a governmental directed economy. + Industry made perfect sense, and I paired that with research which is a major consideration of energy allocation which seemed far more economic to me. I disagree that “Going Green” creates a reduction in production time (Industry), imho it just costs more hence my suggestion of -Econ which again is more fitting with the section.

[Principles]
- Power : +2 Support, +2 Moral, [-2 Growth]
- [Growth]: [+2 Growth], [+1 Police], [-2 Efficiency]
- Wealth : +1 Econ, +1 Industry, -2 Morale

In this section, I wanted to create a sub set of bonuses that matched the three generic play styles found in the game (Momentum Hybrid, and Builder) It is my untested hope that this approach would allow factions to branch out into different styles (even for brief periods) and provide more situational flexibly or to build upon their natural strengths.

To me – 2 Growth made more sense in a momentum style, as a substantial portion of the population is serving in the field and not home breeding. Growth was mainly a repositioning of bonuses from Planned with a balancing effect against Democracy for pop booms. Wealth fits perfectly well with a builder mindset.

[Advanced]
- Cybernetic : [+2 Efficiency], [+2 Growth], [+2 Moral], [-3 Support]
- [Enlightenment] : [+2 Green], [+ 2 Research], [+2 Police], [-2 Industry]
- Thought Control : [+2 Econ], +2 Probe, [+2 Support], [-3 Moral]

OK I almost completely reworked this section. My choices where ideological and not balanced by game mechanics. Input from the community is desired if there are broken combos out there in general or for a specific O7 faction.

Cybernetics means to me more integration, longer life spans, and super soldiers all at a cost of support. Thought Control I saw more income from the enthralled masses, blind support due to media manipulation, but at a cost of military potency when reality is seen for the first time. Enlightenment was a way to round out the missing modifiers. I pictured more intellectual pursuits at the expense of manual labor while being in harmony with the planet and other citizens.

Thanks Harry for the inspiration to explore this topic in my own way.
-Joel

[vyeh]

Democratic - penalty changed to -2 POLICE. The police penalty makes a lot more sense to me than a support penalty. So if you run demo, you can't nerve staple or use military units as police (barring the thought control SP)

I don't regard -2 POLICE as much of a penalty as -2 SUPPORT. I like the free ten minerals and having the extra unit support free seems a good trade for having to build population control facilities one population point earlier, since I tend to rush build and pay at least 2 ec per mineral.

Free Market - penalty changed to -3 PLANET -5 SUPPORT. Again, the support penalty makes more sense to me than a police penalty. Capitalism does not make for a peace loving population, but can make large armies difficult to support. Balance wise, it means that there is always a downside to running FM, instead of a downside only during war. The -5 support means all units cost 2 minerals, a heavy price to pay for the very powerful +2 econ. It also means that a faction can alleviate the support hit by running either FM + PS (right wing dictatorship) or FM + Power (military-industrial complex and mercenary organizations like Blackwater).

I find the -5 SUPPORT penalty a lot more onerous than the -5 POLICE penalty. Since I tend to use Free Market, Planned and Green, this would definitely push me away from Free Market.

Green - penalty changed to -2 INDUSTRY. Environmental controls means less industrial output.

I think this will make Green less attractive. If you have popboomed most of your bases up to the current habitation or nutrient limit, the Growth penalty isn't much of an issue.

Power - penalty changed to -2 GROWTH. Emphasis on war over children. The main reason I switched the the green and power penalties is to make it so that in order to run PS or Power to alleviate FM's support penalty, you have to take a growth penalty. If you go with PS, that means don't get Demo's +2 growth, and if you go with power, you get the -2 growth from that. In all, that means that if you decide to run FM with either PS or Power, your growth score will be at most 0 until Eudaimonia. Also note that with the Cloning Vats removed, there is no way around the penalty.

If I am in a vendetta, POWER becomes very attractive. I can continue building units and defensive facilities without an industry penalty and I get a Morale and Support boost. As long as I can popboom once the vendetta is over, I am not going to mind the temporary GROWTH penalty.

Cybernetic - penalty changed to -3 SUPPORT. Cybernetic infrastructure requires a lot of maintenance. The Network Node SP then provides the maintenance for the cybernetic infrastructure.

This makes Cybernetic less attractive, unless you build the Network Backbone SP.

Eudaimonic - penalty changed to -3 POLICE. I think a police penalty makes more sense than a morale penalty given the description of a Eudaimonic society. The citizens will be just as zealous in defending their society, but have less tolerance for expeditionary wars. Contrast that to the wealth SE choice where there truly is a decadence that saps the will to defend one's homeland. The police penalty also means that Demo+Eudaimonic means a -5 police, which is what one would expect from that SE combo. There is also no way to raise it since the SE choices that give + to police are also in politics and future society. The Ascetic SP can still give you a -4 if you're not Gaian, which means only 1 drone for overseas troops. Furthermore, the ability to nerve staple doesn't make sense with a Eudaimonic society.

I think the -3 POLICE penalty is a little more significant than the -2 MORALE penalty.

Thought Control - penalty changed to -4 RESEARCH. Effective scientific research requires peer review, curiosity, and independent thought. Thought control heavily stifles all of this. I think this penalty makes A LOT more sense than the previous support penalty, and since the Cloning Vats are out, there's no way around it.

-4 RESEARCH is huge and a lot more significant than -3 SUPPORT. However, Thought Control would be very useful for a short vendetta.

Peacekeepers - Free children's creche at every base (child care and education of utmost importance)

I think this makes the Peacekeepers overpowered. Democracy and planned would put every base in an early popboom situation, guaranteeing the Planetary Governorship.

[Harry_Pothead]

I made a couple more changes:

Clean Reactor - ability removed

Morgans - suffer only -2support from FM {savvy defense contractors}

[Harry_Pothead]

I played 7 games, one as each faction, on the map of planet. Librarian difficulty. Made sure to start in the same place for every faction (reload on start, since there are only a few places it ever starts you on map of planet)

For each faction, I went for the type of victory fitting to that faction. Those were:
Gaians-Transcend
Hive-Conquer
University-Transcend
Morgan-Economic
Spartans-Conquer
Believers-Conquer
Peacekeepers-Diplomatic

The Alpha Centauri scores and #of turns was:
Gaians 196%-2298
Hive 66%-2292
University 219%-2309
Morgan 84%-2251
Spartans 64%-2247
Believers 74%-2299
Peacekeepers 100%-2245

Then I scored each faction on a rating. The equation was 2000*score/(#of turns)^2. The # of turns in the denominator is squared to counterbalance the ability to run up the score with TT techs in the end. So for example, if a faction got a score of 115% and won on turn 2270, the rating would be 2000*115/(170)^2, which comes out to 7.96.

The factions came in as follows:

1. The University took the gold, with a rating of 10.03. The rebalancing made it impossible to go Demo/FM in the beginning, because of the onerous support costs of FM. I went with Demo/Planned straight out of the gate, and went with the usual builder strats that I've so often done with Uni, switching to Green after hitting the 14 (16) point limit. Once I got domes, I was without the now-banned Cloning Vats and couldn't switch back to Planned without taking lots of eco-damage, and this is with avoiding minerals facilities. I had to get Eudaimonia to do it, which was enough along with Demo since Green's penalty was changed to -2IND. I ascended about 15-20 turns after this. Even with 5 other factions getting free facilities, the Uni still took the top. (Though the drone penalty was relaxed in compensation-but then again Demo was also changed to -2POL)

2. The Gaians came within a hair of the Uni, with a rating of 10.00. Unlike the Uni, I think the Gaians gained considerably under the rebalancing. The FM change doesn't affect them, since they can't use it anyway. The free Recycling tanks made for quite an early speed up. So much so that they transcended a full 11 years before Uni. And I played the Gaians first, so I was more rusty and less familiar with the map. I played more or less a similar strategy to the Uni, and encountered the same issue about needing Eudaimonia for post-dome pop-booming.

3. The Peacekeepers have the bronze, coming in 9.51. To be honest, the free Children's Creche wasn't as big as I thought it was going to be. In the early game, your growth limited by nutrients more than anything else, and it takes time to terraform up a strong nutrients base. By the time you do, children's creches are cheap and easy to build anyway. Though there was some impressive bouts of pop-boom once I got Demo and Planned, i hit the post-hab-complex max around the same time as Uni and Gaia. Where the free creche really helped was in getting new bases to size 2-3 quickly.

4. Morgan took the middle spot, with a 7.36. Because he only suffers a -2 support penalty from FM, FM got boosted for Morgan while at the same time getting nerfed for other factions. Under the rebalancing, Morgan could do FM without onerous support or drone issues, giving him the best of both worlds. I like this, as I think this gives Morgan a unique advantage that I felt he lacked beforehand. (I always felt that the ability to get +2ECON only off of Wealth was kinda meh since he was barred from Planned anyway) The -1GROWTH did prevent him from pop-booming in the early/mid game, that's true, but I found out that pop-booming actually hurts you if you are going for an Econ victory. The cost to corner the market is based largely off the total population on Planet, *including yours.* (I did some testing on this) What that means is that it was incredibly cheap for Morgan to be able to corner the market, which he was able to do only about 7 turns after finishing the hybrid forests. All my bases were pretty much in the double digits in pop at this point. Demo+creches+GA still made for a +5GROWTH, which is still quite fast when your bases are covered in hybrid forests and kelp. Morgan also got a big jump-start from the free Energy Banks in each base. I never fired a shot against another faction. I did get vendettas from the usual suspects (Miriam, Yang) but they never sent any units.

5. Sparta came in with a mediocre 5.92. All the conquer factions did relatively poorly in fact, though Sparta did the best of them by far. The Spartan rebalancing bonus amounts to a free Command Nexus, which means that the units start out veteran right out of the gate, and move up to elite with Values: Power. That means no having to rebuild an elite-morale force in the mid game. I was able to upgrade it with new prototype techs while it was on the field, giving a huge advantage in combat. Sparta did alright, considering the relatively low conquer scores. Most importantly, they managed to conquer a good 50 turns before the Hive or Believers. They were my 2nd earliest win.

6. Miriam came it in at a dismal 3.73. The rebalancing did help her in that she along with Morgan could run FM without -2mins per unit because of their inherent support bonus. The free rec commons helped a lot with dealing with drones after capturing bases. But while it was easy to conquer the Uni (swear a pact to serve) and Sparta (full kill) who started right near me, the other factions were far away and separated by water. The slowed research made everything take longer. I took out the Gaians last, and I had to stop and wait about 30 turns to get the tech and prototypes I needed. With the Spartans, I already upgraded to that level well before my 2nd-to-last opp was dead, and this was on top of winning a full 50 turns earlier. The Believers were a mediocre faction (IMO) before the rebalance, and remained so.

7. At 3.58, the Hive came in last. This one was without a doubt the most onerous and difficult of the 7 games. The -2ECON and inability to use Demo is a huge downside. The rebalancing didn't change that at all. In fact, the rebalancing hardly changed the Hive at all IMO. The FM change doesn't really matter to them anyway, and they already had a free facility. I think their compensation (immunity from -morale modifiers) was rather paltry, especially compared to the Uni's compensation. Money and ineffiency was a huge problem as I conquered more and more bases, and by the time I finally won I was at -59en/turn with facilities blowing up from low energy reserves all over the place. Without a doubt one of the ugliest wins I ever played, as my empire was already crumbling around me just as I was finishing conquering it.


In all, the rebalancing changed some stuff, but the Liberal Triad (Uni, PK, Gaians) continued to dominate.

[Flubber]

-4 RESEARCH is huge and a lot more significant than -3 SUPPORT. However, Thought Control would be very useful for a short vendetta.



.

I never minded a research penalty while I was going on vendetta-- If I had an appropriate efficiency level I would switch to 100% CASH anyway and support a bunch of rushbuilds to continue the war and probe control stuff away.

Oh and I agree that free creches make the PKs a monster faction-- you have given them an effective +2 Growth factional attribute from year one. Give that faction decent nutrients at the starting site and just watch the colony pods pour out LOL

[Hagen0]

You gave Deirdre free Rectanks? Thats completely over the top. The changes to the other factions pale in comparison. Im very surprised they only came in second.

[kittenOFchaos]

In terms of rebalancing, I think the major issues for the AI are:

1. The defensive techs don't keep pace with the offensive techs.

In offense and defense a human will exploit the major difference between the weapon and armour values. By the time you've shard (value 13), the best defence is probably still silksteel (value 4). The AI is far more likely to use armour than humans, wasting alot of resources as ultimately armour doesn't do enough to be worth putting on many units.

2. The AI uses artillery alot and whilst it can have its uses, the AI would have been better not to have brought it along.

Either improving the damage artillery does, or removing it would benefit the AI in war.

3. The AI on higher difficulty can churn out units like crazy and so has horrible support costs - poor Morgan.

Modifying the faction files of the AI you're playing to give them 0, +1 or +2 support (as appropriate e.g Morgan getting +1 would take him to 0) would make them far more competitive.



Commenting on Harry_Potheads testing, I'm surprised he found Hive such a challenge. Hive is a complete monster faction, it is always top of the pile due to no efficiency negatives when using police state and planned economy and of course his improved industries. They are also easy to get off the ground and running.

[Whoha]

Post screenshots of what your empires looked like at victory,the area around your capitol will be fine.