Atrocities against progenitor factions

[chuft]

I had the impression atrocities against alien factions didn't count, but I was surprised to discover that when I nerve stapled a captured Usurper city, all the human factions imposed sanctions on me. (The alien also refuses to make peace, but that is more understandable.)

Are there atrocities you can commit against alien factions that do not count against your reputation/ecodamage? Nerve gas, planet busters, tectonic missiles, city demolishment? I could have sworn I read that at least some atrocities against aliens didn't count. Apparently, that is not true for nerve stapling.

[GooglyBoogly]

When you "capture" an alien city, all of the aliens are "forcibly exiled" into colony pods. The population becomes human (although they are still in an architecturally alien city) you can tell this because the citizen bar shows the human graphic, not the alien one.

So to paraphrase:
You didn't nerve staple any aliens, you nerve stapled humans living in an alien city. Since nerve stapling beings of your own race is an atrocity, you were hit by the relevant sanctions.

P.S. I am pretty sure that nerve gas and planet busters still count for eco damage regardless of whom they are used against (unless the UN charter has been revoked)

[chuft]

nerve stapling

Well, the alien keeps calling me a butcher, someone who commits atrocities, etc and will not engage in any diplomacy with me any more (unlike the human factions, who treat me normally). So I'm pretty sure the game considers me to have committed an atrocity against the alien by nerve stapling the captured city.

Also in the Psych display for captured alien cities the first line says "Captured Base" not "Unmodified" and there are more drones than usual. So I do think they are treated as captured aliens.

I am fairly sure that somewhere on this board I read that nerve gas at least could be employed against aliens without ecodamage. Unfortunately nerve gas is not covered by the faqs about ecodamage and atrocities so it is hard to find the reference.

[CEO Aaron]

Unfortunately, the code of the game doesn't distinguish between your own citizens and the aliens in that way. Bottom line, don't Nerve staple captured bases. Just make specialists and let the base starve down to manageable levels. Arguably just as atrocitous, but it won't result in the brutal reputation hit.

[chuft]

hmmm

I just found a reference in the game's Datalinks. Screenshot attached.

Seems like nerve stapling should not have caused the other humans to boycott me.

[chuft]

tsk

Didn't upload the image, won't let me add it, and won't let me delete the post. Sigh.

Hopefully it will work this time.

[CEO Aaron]

Yeah, well, that's hardly the first time the Datalinks have been WRONG. Check the Comprehensive Datalinks Update thread and you'll see what I mean.

More to the point, once you conquer a base, the faction you're committing the atrocity against is your own, to be perfectly accurate.

[chuft]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Yeah, well, that's hardly the first time the Datalinks have been WRONG. Check the Comprehensive Datalinks Update thread and you'll see what I mean.

Except I have come across references on this board to people gassing the aliens and not having it count as an atrocity.

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
More to the point, once you conquer a base, the faction you're committing the atrocity against is your own, to be perfectly accurate.

Well, I don't think this is true. First, the alien got really mad at me and won't engage in diplomacy any more, and calls me a butcher. The other factions did not react this way. Second, I just nerve stapled one of my own bases as a test and ended the turn, and the other human factions did not boycott me, unlike when I nerve stapled the captured alien base.

[GooglyBoogly]

The most obvious sign that the newly conquered base is Human, not alien is the citizen graphics used. If you have infiltrated the Aliens datalinks you can click on any one of their cities, and you can see their workers, talents and drones look very different to the humans.

Now examine your newly captured base, the people within are all shown as human, so that is about as good proof that they aint aliens as you are going to get.

There is even an interlude when you capture your first alien city that mentions driving out the aliens from the city (that is what all of those colony pods are meant to represent)

The gassing you mention is usually restricted to Nerve Gas, which is a unit ability that gives +50% attack on the offense amongst other things, it is often needed to counteract the caretakers +25% defensive bonus, and is almost always a great return for minerals invested. Even in the datalinks example you have shown above, there is still no evidence that any atrocities against a different race will ignore eco damage penalties, just economic sanctions and diplo ones (excluding the race you used them against though, obviously)

[chuft]

If all I was doing was nerve stapling my own citizens after driving out the aliens, why would the base show up as "captured base" on the Psych display for that city, and why would the alien stop negotiating with me (and call me a butcher, say all the other factions would be happy when I was dead, etc.) after I nerve stapled the captured city?

I understand what you are saying, but it does not match what is actually happening in this game. The alien is acting like I committed an atrocity against him, and the human factions boycotted me, which they should not be doing regardless of whether I nerve stapled my own citizens or whether I nerve stapled aliens.

[Petek]

This thread contains an extended discussion of the effects of nerve gassing. To summarize, there was no consensus on the exact relationship between nerve gas and ecodamage. Also, the issue of nerve gassing alien factions by humans wasn't discussed. I've personally n-gassed dozens of alien bases multiple times and never saw any ecodamage. However, after reading the above thread, I'm not so sure that we can conclude anything from my experience.

Petek

[Googlie]

I believe that this summarizes the situation:

When you capture an alien base, the base becones yours and your own faction population inhabits it. (therefore if you do nervestaple it, as others have said, you are nerve-stapling your own citizens, so commerce income with other human factions ceases for 10 turns, etc etc)

The remaining aliens try to escape in their colony pods - so if that same turn you destroy those pods, then the alien faction will harangue you evermore about your butchering their citizens and they will count that as an atrocity.

Using nervegas against aliens does not count as atrocity (but each successful attempt on a base halves that base population - if you end up obliterating a base via nerve gas attacks, then again the alien faction will call you atrocitist, butcher etc.)

[chuft]

Originally posted by Googlie
I believe that this summarizes the situation:

When you capture an alien base, the base becones yours and your own faction population inhabits it. (therefore if you do nervestaple it, as others have said, you are nerve-stapling your own citizens, so commerce income with other human factions ceases for 10 turns, etc etc)

I just tested this again (nerve stapling my own base) and this time they did impose sanctions. I wonder why they didn't last time? Do sunspots prevent sanctions? If so, what happens if you use a PB during sunspots?

Originally posted by Googlie The remaining aliens try to escape in their colony pods - so if that same turn you destroy those pods, then the alien faction will harangue you evermore about your butchering their citizens and they will count that as an atrocity.

That's interesting. There is no warning that this will be considered an atrocity.

[CEO Aaron]

There is no warning that this will be considered an atrocity.

Yes, because that sort of atrocity doesn't have any actual consequences, apart from the other faction not liking you. But as they're scum sucking aliens, nobody cares who they like.

Basically, there's lower-case atrocities, which is just you doing things that will piss a faction off, and then upper case ATROCITIES that invoke other punitive actions, unless you lift the U.N. Charter.

[GooglyBoogly]

I am pretty sure that during sunspot activity there are no sanctions for any atrocity except planet busters. However, any player you use nerve gas,or obliterate base will know about it and get peeved. (but nobody else)