Newbie SMAC Combat Questions

[gfross]

I'm playing SMAC (solo), not SMAX. I'm a Builder, not a Hybrid or Momentum player (to use the terms Vel uses in his SMAX Guide, verson 4.0). I'm playing Lal. My goal is Transcendence. I'm playing a Civilian level to start with. I want to absorb Vel's tactics and strategies until I know them backwards and forwards and then gradually increase the difficulty level of the game, aiming ultimately for Transcend level. This will probably take some months of play.

My questions:

1. Since artillery units use only their attack strength in an artillery duel (SMAC Game Manual p. 101), if they have equal weapons, equal morale, and equal altitude, the attacker should be able to destroy the defender since the defender will not be able to return the final "punch." Is this correct? If so, then it would be wise to always have one more artillery unit in a base than the attacker has attacking the base (i.e., two defending in a base versus one attacking from outside the base). That way the defender will be able to destroy the attacker. Am uncertain whether the number of moves a unit has affects its attack strength (see my question about Power, #5 below).

2. Does changing the morale level via the SE (e.g., switching from Wealth [-2 Morale] to Power [+2 Morale]) automatically change the morale level of all military units ALREADY built?

3. What do the plus signs mean as morale indicators, e.g., Hardened, Hardened +, Hardened ++? Do they indicate a temporary condition? Is Hardened + equal to Veteran and Hardened ++ equal to Commando?

4. Vel recommends in his manual, Vel's SMAX Guide, version 4.0 (p. 240), using choppers. How does the combat between a chopper and military land or sea unit work? The Game Manual says that any unit may attack a chopper. So what then gives the chopper an advantage in a duel with a land or sea unit that doesn't have SAM (or AAA)? Is it the fact that it has greater number of moves, e.g., 8 to a Rover's 2, an Infantry's 1, or a Cruiser's 6? Or is it that a land or sea unit without SAM cannot damage a chopper? Vel recommends not armoring a chopper (to avoid the extra cost of armor) if it is stationed in a base that has artillery or AAA protection.

5. Does the number of moves a unit can make determine the "Power" of the unit? I'm still very unclear about what "Power" is and about the formulas for combat and how combat works in this game. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

6. Does the term "Missile Launcher" simply mean a weapon strength of 6? I'm a little confused about missiles, because the Game Manual says (p. 101) that missiles are a special kind of air unit, a "one-shot, fire and forget" weapon that always gets destroyed after an attack, even if they win. Are missiles as such completely different from a Missile Launcher weapon ability?

OK. That's it for the moment. Thanks for any advice you can give!

Gordon

[vyeh]

Re: Newbie SMAC Combat Questions

Originally posted by gfross
1. Since artillery units use only their attack strength in an artillery duel (SMAC Game Manual p. 101), if they have equal weapons, equal morale, and equal altitude, the attacker should be able to destroy the defender since the defender will not be able to return the final "punch." Is this correct? If so, then it would be wise to always have one more artillery unit in a base than the attacker has attacking the base (i.e., two defending in a base versus one attacking from outside the base). That way the defender will be able to destroy the attacker. Am uncertain whether the number of moves a unit has affects its attack strength (see my question about Power, #5 below).

There is an element of chance involved. In your scenario, half the time the attacker artillery is destroyed.

Obviously, if you have a second artillery, the second artillery would be able to attack the original attacker during its turn.

Rovers have an advantage if attacking in a flat or rolling terrain that infantry units don't have. Infantry has a bonus attacking bases that rovers do not have.

Originally posted by gfross
2. Does changing the morale level via the SE (e.g., switching from Wealth [-2 Morale] to Power [+2 Morale]) automatically change the morale level of all military units ALREADY built?

Yes.

Originally posted by gfross
3. What do the plus signs mean as morale indicators, e.g., Hardened, Hardened +, Hardened ++? Do they indicate a temporary condition? Is Hardened + equal to Veteran and Hardened ++ equal to Commando?

See Maniac's article for an explanation about the plus signs.

Originally posted by gfross
4. Vel recommends in his manual, Vel's SMAX Guide, version 4.0 (p. 240), using choppers. How does the combat between a chopper and military land or sea unit work? The Game Manual says that any unit may attack a chopper. So what then gives the chopper an advantage in a duel with a land or sea unit that doesn't have SAM (or AAA)? Is it the fact that it has greater number of moves, e.g., 8 to a Rover's 2, an Infantry's 1, or a Cruiser's 6? Or is it that a land or sea unit without SAM cannot damage a chopper? Vel recommends not armoring a chopper (to avoid the extra cost of armor) if it is stationed in a base that has artillery or AAA protection.

First, a chopper can move after it attacks, so it can dart in, attack and dart out. The greater number of moves allows it to attack without leaving itself open to counterattack.

Originally posted by gfross
5. Does the number of moves a unit can make determine the "Power" of the unit? I'm still very unclear about what "Power" is and about the formulas for combat and how combat works in this game. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Where did you see "power?"

Basic combat involves the attacker's weapons (W) versus the defender's armor (A). In each combat round, the chance that the attacker prevails is W/(W+A). If the attacker prevails, the defender loses a hit point. The number of hit points depends on the reactor type. Fission has 10 hit points when fully healthy, fusion 20, quantum 30 and singularity 40.

If the defender prevails, the attacker loses a hit point.

Morale modifies these odds.

Psi combat matches attackers morale versus the defender's morale.

Probe team combat occurs between probe teams.

Originally posted by gfross
6. Does the term "Missile Launcher" simply mean a weapon strength of 6? I'm a little confused about missiles, because the Game Manual says (p. 101) that missiles are a special kind of air unit, a "one-shot, fire and forget" weapon that always gets destroyed after an attack, even if they win. Are missiles as such completely different from a Missile Launcher weapon ability?

Yes.

A missile launcher and a missile are two separate things.

A missile launcher is a weapon of strength 6.

A missile is an air chassis.

Please feel free to join us in the AC Demogame.

You could see how you would apply Vel's early game strategies.

[gfross]

Thank you for your helpful answers! With regard to "Power," I asked that question because after every duel a window appears showing the combat data for my unit and for the enemy unit. In that data is the word "Power," e.g., Power = 10. In rereading the game manual last night, I realized that the term "power" refers to the unit's reactor, and I also learned, as you said, that the reactor determines the strength of a unit's defense. I also learned that the type of reactor can increase the number of moves an air unit can make if the unit has the anti-grav struts special installed.

Choppers are really great. I am now using them (6/1/10), and they simply mow down every enemy land or sea unit, the strongest of which are 5/3/2. The enemies in my game don't have air units or AAA or SAM yet. For this I am grateful, since the game setup put me (Peacekeepers) on a continent with both the Spartans and, as I just discovered, the Hive. No sooner did I wipe out the Spartans than the Hive started attacking and the Believers in the continent just to the north of me declared a vendetta. No rest for the weary. And all I wanted to do was head for Transcendence and have treaties and trade with everybody. LOL However, I am way ahead of everybody in every respect, which I expected at Civilian level -- am glad, though, that the game has such an easy level to start with so that I can learn all the in's and out's of game play. This game is really complex -- and lots of fun!

Thanks for your invite to the AC Demogame. I'll drop by and take a look.

Oh, one more question -- Is there a way I can get the game to stop each time and right after an enemy destroys an improvement of mine, so that I know what exactly has happened? The problem is that all this takes place just before my turn, and I get to see it for what seems like less than a second, and when my turn starts, windows start popping up one after another telling me that a forest has expanded here or a base improvement has been made there, or a Golden Age has begun in a particular base, etc. And by the time I have gone through window after window of information (I have about 30 bases now), I have no idea what the enemy (be it one of the civs or a wild IOD) has done to me.

[vyeh]

In Advanced Preferences, if you check pause after every battle, I believe the game will pause if an enemy attacks one of your units.

There is no way to pause it if it destroys one of your improvements.

The Data MFD is the window located in the lower center of your screen. If you click on the "M" button, you can see the most recent messages generated by the game with the oldest on top. If the destruction of your improvement generated a message, then you can see the message here.

[gfross]

Thanks again!

1. Is there an article somewhere that spells out in detail the features of each of the many different names of military units that can be designed in the workshop -- something that I can print out? In other words, how does a Dragon differ from an Enforcer, etc.? Or will I have to do all this myself? Every added feature causes the name of the unit to be changed -- and for a newbie like me, this gets very confusing, fast! It would also be helpful if an icon of each kind of unit were also available in printed form so that I could simply refer to it when I see an enemy unit in the field. As it is, it's sometimes difficult to know exactly what the capabilities of such a unit are when I see one approaching one of my bases.

2. What do I need to do to delete a unit from the design slots of the workshop? They're all full now.

[vyeh]

1. From the alpha.txt file:

#CHASSIS
Infantry,M1, Squad,M1, Sentinels,M2, Garrison,M1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, None, Shock Troops,M2, Elite Guard,M1,
Speeder,M1, Rover,M1, Defensive,M1, Skirmisher,M1,2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, Mobile, Dragon,M1, Enforcer,M1,
Hovertank,M1, Tank,M1, Skimmer,M1, Evasive,M1, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 3, NanoMin, Behemoth,M1, Guardian,M1,
Foil,M1, Skimship,M1, Hoverboat,M1, Coastal,M1, 4, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4, DocFlex, Megafoil,M1, Superfoil,M1,
Cruiser,M1, Destroyer,M1, Cutter,M1, Gunboat,M1, 6, 1, 0, 0, 4, 6, DocInit, Battleship,M1, Monitor,M1,
Needlejet,M1, Penetrator,M1, Interceptor,M1, Tactical,M1, 8, 2, 2, 0, 1, 8, DocAir, Thunderbolt,M1, Sovereign,M1,
'Copter,M1, Chopper,M1, Rotor,M1, Lifter,M1, 8, 2, 1, 0, 1, 8, MindMac, Gunship,M1, Warbird,M1,
Gravship,M1, Skybase,M1, Antigrav,M1, Skyfort,M1, 8, 2, 0, 0, 1, 8, Gravity, Deathsphere,M1, Doomwall,M1,
Missile,M1, Missile,M1, Missile,M1, Missile,M1, 12, 2, 1, 1, 0,12, Orbital, Missile,M1, Missile,M1,

You can find an explanation for the names here.

So a Dragon is "very strong and mainly offensive" and an Enforcer is "very strong and mainly defensive."

In the Design Workshop (Menu > HQ > Design Workshop), you can see how the units are made. You can see what each weapon, armor, chassis looks.

When you see an enemy unit approaching, click on it. It will show you the units weapon, armor, chassis, special abilities and morale.

2. In the Design Workshop, hit the Retire button. It will delete the design (note it will also eliminate any existing units of that design).

[gfross]

Thanks! Managing the Design Workshop is pretty complex, I'm discovering. Every time I discover a new technology that allows a unit improvement, I have to decide whether I want all the relevant protypes to be designed or not. I just did this with Fusion Power (saying YES to ALL), and some units were upgraded automatically, some FUTURE units were prototyped, and some units weren't affected at all. Since I'm at Civilian level, designing protogypes doesn't cost anything, but, of course, the 60 slots get filled up quickly, and to make slots available I have to go through and retire (as you said) unwanted units, which means also that I have to upgrade or destroy obsolete units that are currently active. Also the names for new units that the design workshop gives are not the most helpful. For example, my clean fusion fungicidal formers and my "unclean" fusion fungicidal formers are both called "Fungicidal Formers" in the Base Production window. The only way I can tell them apart is that the clean version costs more to build than the unclean version. Well, I'll figure things out eventually. LOL. Thanks again for your help!

[BlackCat]

Instead of using the Retire button, use the Obsolete. That way you won't loose any units of that type and the type won't be in the production list. After using Obsolete, the unit will still be in the list, but marked Obsolete. If you have lost the last unit of that type, just click Upgrade - that way you gain a free slot.

Under game settings there is a choice of autodesign new units - if you turn that off, you'll only be asked for upgrade when you discover a new power type. Another choice is "autoprune obsolete units" wich you probably want to be turned on.

Sorry if I'm a bit unprecise in the description, but I don't have the program at hand for the moment

Choppers are fun. You are saying you are mowing down the enemy with them. A suggestion - try to avoid formers. One thigs is that it can cost some hitpoints, but more important, when you take their homebase, their support are moved to another base and thereby decreasing it's building capacity. Often it's enough to take out the defenses with choppers and take the base with for example a drop rover. Then all units from that base gets it's support moved to another, and if it has low min production, several units will be disbanded automatically without you getting a scratch.

[vyeh]

The original problem was that all the design slots in the Unit Workshop were full. The Retire button leaves the slot in use.

[BlackCat]

Well, that is one of the reasons you want to clean up UW regularly and don't use autodesign

[vyeh]

There is a quirk when playing Citizen level (which is what I'm assuming Civilian means).

At Citizen, you don't need to prototype. If autodesign is on, then you can immediately upgrade units to the new weapon or armor. If autodesign is off, then it costs more until you've actually built the unit or you turn on auto-design and it designs more units.

See this post and this post.

So playing at the citizen level, don't turn off the auto-design!

[CEO Aaron]

Re: Newbie SMAC Combat Questions

Originally posted by gfross
I'm playing SMAC (solo), not SMAX. I'm a Builder, not a Hybrid or Momentum player (to use the terms Vel uses in his SMAX Guide, verson 4.0). I'm playing Lal. My goal is Transcendence. I'm playing a Civilian level to start with. I want to absorb Vel's tactics and strategies until I know them backwards and forwards and then gradually increase the difficulty level of the game, aiming ultimately for Transcend level. This will probably take some months of play.

Transcend isn't as hard as all that, imo. If you pursue an aggressive building strategy, building lots of bases and focusing on strong population growth, you'll find Transcend level not much more difficult than the lower difficulties. I'd say the only REAL impediment to transcend play is learning to cope with the early occurence of drones.

The production bonuses enjoyed by the AI are significant, but the AI is so sloppy about aggression that you can hold him off for a long time, and he only really makes a nuissance of himself once he gets Air Power.

1. Since artillery units use only their attack strength in an artillery duel (SMAC Game Manual p. 101), if they have equal weapons, equal morale, and equal altitude, the attacker should be able to destroy the defender since the defender will not be able to return the final "punch." Is this correct? If so, then it would be wise to always have one more artillery unit in a base than the attacker has attacking the base (i.e., two defending in a base versus one attacking from outside the base). That way the defender will be able to destroy the attacker. Am uncertain whether the number of moves a unit has affects its attack strength (see my question about Power, #5 below).

For artillery bombardments, the number of moves left for the attacker has no effect on bombardment power, unlike normal attacks. Do yourself a favor and build infantry artillery. Their attack bonus versus bases DOES affect their bombardment, and really bases are where you will find yourself using artillery most, and where you'll really need the extra advantage to batter defenders in advance of an assault.

2. Does changing the morale level via the SE (e.g., switching from Wealth [-2 Morale] to Power [+2 Morale]) automatically change the morale level of all military units ALREADY built?

Yes and no. Yes, in so far as the direct penalties to unit morale are shifted appropriately, but no in that the halving of morale from training facilities like command centers and naval yards is NOT reversed. So if you're gearing up for a war and want to later be able to shift to a stronger morale rating, make sure your morale SE setting is at -1 or better. For everyone but Deirdre, that means you should be running wealth only with fundamentalism.

[quote]4. Vel recommends in his manual, Vel's SMAX Guide, version 4.0 (p. 240), using choppers. How does the combat between a chopper and military land or sea unit work?[quote]

A chopper, properly used, will never be in a position to be attacked alone. First of all, any ground unit needs the SAM attribute to even be able to attack it, and air units need to be interceptors. Second, your choppers should generally start and end their movement in bases, where tougher garrisons can absorb casual strikes for them. If you attack a unit within range of an available interceptor, the interceptor will scramble to the rescue, BUT the interceptor's attack value will be compared to the chopper's attack value, again highlighting the comparative uselessness of armor. The only time armor is used is against attackers outside your turn, ie: SAM units and interceptors in non-scramble mode.

5. Does the number of moves a unit can make determine the "Power" of the unit? I'm still very unclear about what "Power" is and about the formulas for combat and how combat works in this game. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Roads and fractional movement is probably what's stumping you. I'm assuming by 'power', you're looking at the odds displayed under 'confirm odds before attacking', when you're told by the computer that your unit has a low chance of winning a battle.

First of all, each unit is given an allotment of movement points, based on chassis (and morale, if they're elite). Infantry has a base movement of 1, Rovers 2, etc. As long as a unit has one full movement point remaining during an attack, your unit will attack and full power. However, roaded tiles cost only 1/3 of a movement point to traverse, so it's possible to have a unit with only a partial movement. In that case, their 'power value' will be multiplied by whatever fraction of movement they have remaining. The base power value is derived from a unit's current hit points multiplied by its relevant combat statistic, ie: weapon power for attackers and armor for defenders.

6. Does the term "Missile Launcher" simply mean a weapon strength of 6? I'm a little confused about missiles, because the Game Manual says (p. 101) that missiles are a special kind of air unit, a "one-shot, fire and forget" weapon that always gets destroyed after an attack, even if they win. Are missiles as such completely different from a Missile Launcher weapon ability?

Overlapping namespace for the loss. Yes, there's a 'missile launcher' weapon type, and a missile weapon chassis. One is a unit armament, the other is a unit type. The unit armament is not 'one shot', only the missile chassis.

And all I wanted to do was head for Transcendence and have treaties and trade with everybody. LOL However, I am way ahead of everybody in every respect, which I expected at Civilian level -- am glad, though, that the game has such an easy level to start with so that I can learn all the in's and out's of game play. This game is really complex -- and lots of fun!

Yeah, the game makes up for its stultifying stupidity by engaging in 'gang up on the leader' diplomacy. If you want peaceful neighbors, you need to conquer them first. At day's end, SMAX is a wargame.

What do I need to do to delete a unit from the design slots of the workshop? They're all full now.

Turn off the autodesigner. Your engineers are so wacky, they'll keep redesigning the muffin powered marshmallow tank and putting it in your build queues. Once the autodesigner is off, you can much more easily manage your unit builds, such that you'll likely never use all 64 slots. Don't worry about prototype costs, you're going to have to get used to them in later difficulties anyway.

For the record, it's 'RETIRE' that destroys all active units of the type, and 'OBSOLETE' that merely removes it from your build queue. However, if you turn off the autodesigner, you'll very likely never use all 64 slots, unless you too wish to field the muffin-powered marshmallow tank.