ACDG5: The Wardroom

[vyeh]

Lt. Chairman,

Please note if the supply droid base distribution option wins, the movement of the supply droids is determined.

If scouts explore now option loses, all the rest of the options require the scouts move into the nearest base for the next turn.

If former droids federalize intercon road option wins, I would recommend that the HQ and North formers build roads in the arid flat squares they are currently in. It will cost 1 year to build road and 1/3 year to move into base; it would cost 1 year to move into base (since the base is in the direction of where the former needs to go). So building road is almost free, and road will save time when a former returns to those squares.

The former near east base is in a different position. Since square is rolling, building road will take two years. I think it would be more important to move the former 1 sq. SW and on subsequent turns build a road to first expansion site (and, if necessary, prep the first expansion site. HQ former can build road to east.

If former droids federalize intercon road option wins, I'd like to see a vote on the movement of the east former that includes the option of moving that former one square SW (the other two logical options: build a road on the current square and move the former into east base).

[dacole]

*blinks* is this how we truly are going to run things...every little move of every unit requires a vote? This would be a mistake and is the reason for base govenors. If the federalize option wins we should appoint someone to over see former deployment and someone to oversee exploration and such. Eventually we will likly need a secretary of defense, one for science, one for internal development (formers the use of droids) and possibly other people. Only the largest decisions (war and peace, the building of a special project which if it wins someone should be appointed to oversee it,) should require a direct vote. As the Russian council member said before (I am agreeing with a Russian *shiver*) if everyone is responsible than no one is responsible.

[vyeh]

On the question of technology, we need to research mobility for the rovers Lt. dacole mentions. Intelligence about our surroundings is vital. Researching flexibility to explore the seas is a necessity. I wonder if we could get an agreement on what are the first FEW technologies to research. I'm willing to agree that Centauri Ecology belongs there both for the Weather Paradigm and to build formers for the bases. I hope you see some merit in the need to explore.

Edit: Garrison plus because supply droids are too valuable to leave undefended.

Formers droids can be replaced once we have Centauri Ecology, but supply droids can't be replaced until Industrial Automation.

[timsup2nothin]

Originally posted by dacole
*blinks* is this how we truly are going to run things...every little move of every unit requires a vote? This would be a mistake and is the reason for base govenors.

Not at all what I had in mind. A federalized former team, for example, would be tasked with a project like 'interconnecting roads' and a commander assigned. The routing of the roads and specifics of construction would be his responsibility and a deadline for completion established. Then the council would broadly establish the next task, ie 'connect to and prepare site of expansion base'. I trust base commanders to manage the area around their base, I just think a team of faction operated formers saves negotiating with base commanders every time we want to do something outside of their areas.

Whether our current group of former teams are permanently federalized or assigned to the bases but loaned for the duration of the road project I would like to appoint someone to manage that project. Without making the assumption that the vote on the 'Former' issue will necessarily go that way, I would like to hear from anyone willing to fill that position should it be needed.

[vyeh]

Lt. dacole has convinced me to change my vote to base distribution. Surely, we can trust the governors to build roads.

Lt. dacole is persuasive about positions. Nominate Lt. dacole for Secretary of Science, Lt. Bodissey for Secretary of the Army and Lt. timsup2nothin for Secretary of the Navy. Our esteemed faction leader Lt. Chairman should focus on long term planning. Let's have votes on multiyear programs.

Since Lt. dacole was traveling from his base when the vote on federalizing HQ was taken, I would be willing to see the issue of federalizing HQ reopen with the following condition: The Lt. Chairman governs HQ base. If HQ is federalized, then the next faction leader will govern HQ and the Lt. Chairman will get that nice seaside estate. If HQ is not federalized, then the next faction leader will not govern HQ.

I would be willing to see Centauri Ecology as the initial tech to research and hope the new Secretary of Science sees the wisdom of exploring the seas.

[timsup2nothin]

I actually want to clarify something here more generally.

At this point we have just landed. We have issues to address that will never be addressed again, such as assignment of units which were not built by a base, location of bases that we did not have any opportunity to plan ahead for, minimal knowledge of our surroundings. That has required some issues be handled sequentially, which in turn called for handling them rapidly.

The short voting period for base placement, for example, was needed so we could have a clear field to discuss what to do about terraforming, who wanted to command which base, unit assignments, and the list goes on. Rather than have a whole bunch of 'well, if we put the bases here we could do this, if we put the bases there we could do that', I led for placing the bases and then moving on.

Please do not assume that because I am having discussions about the assignment of the small stock of units we managed to land on the planet that I will want to debate the fate of every scout unit ever built on the planet. I assure you that I won't.

What is really being worked out right here, right now, are answers to unavoidable questions, and we and our successors will have to live with the answers we arrive at for as long as we are on the planet.

While I am not an advocate of the council debating the direction of every little terraforming unit, I am also not in favor of having the council have to go through negotiation with the base commanders about who can best afford to supply the formers every time the council wants to build a road or sensor array in undeveloped territory. What will be the relationship between Base Commanders and the faction council on terraforming? How we answer that question is mildly important to our current situation, but much more importantly it establishes a precedent.

The same can be said about our meager supply of scout units. Representing the faction, the council strikes a balance between exploration and security. Base commanders are, by nature, supportive of the faction, but also confronted by their responsibility to their base. I would expect them to strike a different balance.

How we reconcile that difference the first time will always help us, or always haunt us. That responsibility is at the core of everything I have said in council so far, and probably accounts for my entire nerve staple ration having been expended.

So if anyone can front me a few staples I would like to encourage you to share your views on technology with Lt Dacole so he can present a slate of options for us to vote on in a timely fashion. I also encourage everyone to vote on the issues already at hand. If the immediate detail seems too minute, consider the implications.

[timsup2nothin]

Originally posted by vyeh


Since Lt. dacole was traveling from his base when the vote on federalizing HQ was taken, I would be willing to see the issue of federalizing HQ reopen with the following condition: The Lt. Chairman governs HQ base. If HQ is federalized, then the next faction leader will govern HQ and the Lt. Chairman will get that nice seaside estate. If HQ is not federalized, then the next faction leader will not govern HQ.

In a word, no.

While I sympathize with Lt Dacole having missed this vote, the vote closed at 3-0. He may freely state how he would have voted, and may even strongly argue that the result should have been different, but in fact his vote by itself cannot change the outcome.

I will take his travel time from his base into account in determining the term of future voting windows, but will not set a precedent of reopening completed votes. What would we then say to someone who staggers in fresh from cryosleep a week from now and wants to revisit every decision we've made?

[vyeh]

I suggest a compromise on supply droids. They remain under control of the base governors until a special project begins. Then they are used to fuel (not cashed) the Special Project within a single base. I know Lt. Bodissey supports this position. Since the Lt. Chairman is a strong proponent of federalization, I'm can't see him objecting to combining the harvesting power of the crawlers for a project that benefits the entire faction. I hope Lt. dacole can accept a delay of the supply droids being turned over to faction control.

I think the Lt. Chairman misunderstands the nature of debate over the scouts. No one is suggesting that the exploratory scouts be under control of the bases (no one has voted for the garrison option). The split is between explore now (and leave the bases undefended for a year while they build garrisons), garrison for a year and then explore, garrison for a multi-year period until the bases build garrison units for the bases and protectors for the droids and then go. It seems the debate over the scouts is the balance between exploration and security.

There may be a compromise on the former droids. Let each base have control of one droid until it has had the opportunity to build a former. Then the former droids would revert to the faction (presumably managed by a coordinator appointed by the faction leader subject to the council's broad policy direction).

I did say before the vote on HQ governance that I had hoped to hear from Lt. dacole. When he couldn't make it before the voting deadline, I was forced to vote without the benefit of his views.

[timsup2nothin]

Originally posted by vyeh
I suggest a compromise on supply droids. They remain under control of the base governors until a special project begins. Then they are used to fuel (not cashed) the Special Project within a single base. I know Lt. Bodissey supports this position. Since the Lt. Chairman is a strong proponent of federalization, I'm can't see him objecting to combining the harvesting power of the crawlers for a project that benefits the entire faction. I hope Lt. dacole can accept a delay of the supply droids being turned over to faction control.

Oddly enough, I'm not in favor of federalization here. I think the compromise breeds the possibility of the faction's call for the droids putting a base commander in a position where his people have to starve if he complies. I personally voted for distributing the supply droids and turning them over to the commanders permanently. If the harvesting for a project ifea really resonates perhaps assigning them all to HQ is better. That way HQ can more quickly provide all the garrison units, scouts, and possibly a former unit for East while they keep burping up CPs, and be ready to work a project as soon as we have the tech.

I think the Lt. Chairman misunderstands the nature of debate over the scouts. No one is suggesting that the exploratory scouts be under control of the bases (no one has voted for the garrison option). The split is between explore now (and leave the bases undefended for a year while they build garrisons), garrison for a year and then explore, garrison for a multi-year period until the bases build garrison units for the bases and protectors for the droids and then go. It seems the debate over the scouts is the balance between exploration and security.

You may be right about me not understanding, since I thought that I was saying the same thing that I think you are saying. The debate is security vs exploration. Do we use the available scouts as garrisons, at least temporarily, or send them out to see what's what. I am definitely a security first guy, and would send out scouts after not only garrisoning the bases but also posting guards on all three supply droids and providing a scout unit to the commander of the terraforming effort.

There may be a compromise on the former droids. Let each base have control of one droid until it has had the opportunity to build a former. Then the former droids would revert to the faction (presumably managed by a coordinator appointed by the faction leader subject to the council's broad policy direction).

My own preference, which my vote reflects, is to take these droids as the foundation of a faction terraforming team, assign them a commander, and task him with getting roads built between our three bases, then probably task him with setting up for our first expansion base. I would think that by the time he has completed those tasks we would have the technology and opportunity for the bases to build their own formers.

I did say before the vote on HQ governance that I had hoped to hear from Lt. dacole. When he couldn't make it before the voting deadline, I was forced to vote without the benefit of his views.

You were also forced to vote without benefit of the views of Lt NextOverTheHill. I repeat, I think it would be a very bad idea to set a precedent of reopening votes. When he arrives I would like to be able to tell LT NextOverTheHill to make sure he votes on the current topics, and feel free to comment on any past issues that he has any observations about, but that we don't revote every time someone comes over the hill.

[vyeh]

I agree with the Lt. Chairman's position on the scouts. Scouts temporarily garrison bases until garrisons can be built. Scouts temporarily provide protection for supply droids until defenders can be built. One of the scouts provides security for the expansion site until garrison can be provided.

I withdraw suggested compromise on supply droids.

On formers, we agree on need for roads. I'd like that to include road to expansion site.

[Mart]

Let's make decisions and get the game rolling.
If something is not working very well, it can be changed any time.

[timsup2nothin]

Voting on current issues will be closed at ~2000.

Assuming the current vote counts stand that will give us results of Garrison Plus for the scouts, permanent distribution for the supply droids, and on the formers the vote is split evenly on their ultimate distribution but they will definitely be building roads first.

My intention is to set a precedent that the Faction Leader breaks tied votes, which will produce the core of the Interbase TerraFormation Unit (ITFU). Since he has been the most outspoken about specifics I will appoint Lt Vyeh as their first commander.

Our holdup at the moment seems to be the research direction question.

[vyeh]

The former operators have been getting antsy, so I went ahead and gave them orders consistent with the intercon road.

HQ, north formers built roads (2/3rd chance this will be free move and base governors will later want to terraform these inhospitable squares producing nothing!

East former moved one square SW and plans to start road next turn to first expansion base site. Lt. dacole will be happy that intrepid former driver has discovered Nessus Canyon and Unity supply pod. Note that expansion base site 1 sq. SW of east former's current position is covered with dense fungus of some kind, which will require clearing taking six years.

East former driver also intercepted (reception must be better) intelligence about rebel factions.



We've got the most units and population.

Expert on research direction was still fuzzy from hibernation sleep and wandered into going away party for Governors Bodissey and dacole. Before he could be directed here, he started eating and drinking and talking about the nature of planning research. Lt. Bodissey is trying to figure out the implications.

[timsup2nothin]

Excellent. The voting period is complete. I will formulate directives for the logistics analyst shortly.

[dacole]

I still say we need to explore and a year can pass without the bases having protection. Planet is large and we would have time to see anyone coming and return our exploring units to the bases before we were attacked. Knowledge is power the more we have the better we can plan. The supply droids for now are irreplacable so perhaps we should consider protecting them but they will not be replaceable for long.

On science after centauri ecology we need to head toward making capitalism work on planet and hopefully building on our supply droids.

(This would mean my prefered order would be Centauri Ecology, Industrial base, Information networks, industrial economics, planetary networks, and industrial automation. Which ever game winning strategy we end up using b-lineing (as it is called) for industrial automation is always a good strategy).

Of course I reserve the right to change my mind as circumstances change. To me it looks like we are between two continents so I doubt we will need sea power quickly but I could be wrong. As well there may be a faction on one of these continents that needs to be forcefully brought back into the fold, lasers then would make our argument much more easily than bullets in that instance. (Ok time to go reinstall AC! WEE!)

Edit: ok using the editor, we can no do industrial base after centauri ecology so new order Centauri ecology, information networks, industrial base, industrial economics, planatary networks, and industrial automation) as well we should put things on 100% research pretty much all the time. Especially now when we are small dealing with drones buy making specialists, or building facilities is always better).