Advice for SMANiaC Morgan

[Hydro]

Hi All,

I have a bit of a problem. I'm playing Morgan in the SMANiaC Mod in a PBEM. He has -2 support off the bat, meanting no minerals when he builds a base and only supports 1 unit for free.

This is causing problems, as you may guess. Right now I'm building defenders and then colony pods. Building a terraformer takes forever and when it's done my industry is crippled (3 goes to 2, or 2 to 1 mins).

Right now I have 6 bases and one terraformer and it is 2144. I feel crippled by the lack of terraforming improvements, but the base where I build the terraformer (Morgan Industries) is having difficulty building anything.

Fortunately I haven't met anyone else yet or I'd be REALLY toast. I'm colonizing Pholus Ridge and Uranium Flats (lots of energy!), but my industry really sucks. SMAniaC's Morgan is a real bear.

Pods vs formers? Build formers when I grow vertically? I could post a screenshot if that would help.

Thoughts?

Hydro

[BlackCat]

Screenshot could help a bit A save would be better, but probably a bad idea

[Hydro]

I trust MasterBuilder, my PBEM opponent. This is, after all, my 16th PBEM with MB!

My turn is attached, and my password is Money (kind of obvious for Morgan, I guess).

Here's my screenshot. Let's see if it turns out.
www.ImageShack.us" />


Hydro

Edit: the image is poor. I wonder if there is a way to improve the image from imageshack. Otherwise I can post the JPEG.

[BlackCat]

If it was me, I would build one of those cheap AI formers in each city and start formatting the terrain - planting forrest (if you can) and connect the cities with roads. Your lack of roads are a bit of a problem - your colony pods are on the road to their sites too long taking up min support, no possibility for quick responses in case of "emergencies".

Build recycling tanks or rather, hurry them - you have tons of energy.

Oh, and get that scout back to the rioting city - you have an extra in the nearby town that can take over.

[Hydro]

The cheap AI formers (that cost 1 row of minerals) are Not Allowed. The human players can only build the normal formers. I should have obsoleted them but was lazy.

None of the cities are rioting, but they will at size 3. Note that in SMAniaC my scouts get me no police benefit so leaving is irrelevent wrt rioting.

The scout you see is to help the colony pod go through the fungus - if the CP stirs up a MW it is toast. The other scouts are to kill a spoor launcher that has been pasting my city and poor scout for 6 turns.

So if I understand you, I should abort building more CPs and build formers instead. I'll also need to rush the rec commons at Morgan Industries before riots start at size 3. Then a recycling tank seems to be in order.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I kind of knew I'd have to bite the bullet and build formers. -2 support is a bear. (insert wheepy violin music here)

Hydro

[Mart]

I checked your save. I have to leave now for several hours, but have a few remarks that would need more writing. If during that time you advance to a new turn, maybe post it.

[BlackCat]

Ok, "not allowed" was the catch - I knew there was something fishy about you not building them

Guess that my setup isn't the rigth - the city just below the CP cools down if I move the scout back.

I don't see how you can get anywhere without formers - all that fungus prevents your movement and is probably filled with surprises.

About what to build first, I would build recycling before RC's. It's just a gut thing, but I think it's more effective - without terraforming I think it's better to get what a CT gives than what a worker on a raw tile can give.

Edit : forget those damn fiddles, play some real music and prepare for fight

[Hydro]

Are you loading with SMAniaC Mod? In regular SMAC the bases will riot at size 2 w/o a garrison, but in SMAniaC frontier SE gets you one free talent and garrisons have no effect due to reduced frontier police settings.

Any advice is appreciated. I played several of the SMAniaC factions and many of the SMAC 7 in SMAniaC and Morgan is definately the hardest. This means I'm missing something, or that Morgan has been pruned a bit too much. Now, he can pop boom in SMAniaC. How is that weighed against -2 support to start? Hard to say.

Hydro

[Mart]

Ok, I'm back online. I think that many strategies from regular smax are still valid.

About number of bases and their population:

You can increase number of bases till you reach bureaucracy limit. Police should not be needed then and only defending units. Since, there is a talent in Frontier setting, I would spread bases as long as they can grow to size 2 without rioting. It gives you production centers, research points and energy for hurrying.
Keep population at size 2 no more, that until you have more energy in bases to assign some for psych and this way control the drones.

Here is something about making a colony pod in a base of size2. When you accumulate 2 rows of nutrients (out of needed 3 for population 3) and you build colony pod next turn, base looses -1 pop but then gets immediately pop +1 exhausting only 2 rows of food. You can build colony pods in such a base maintaining base pop at 2 all the time. It is the cheapest: 3 mineral rows + 2 nutrient rows (before any pop boom is possible). Note, that any nutrients above 2 rows are lost. In practice hurrying minerals is often needed not to loose additional nutrients.

So for example Morgan Ind. might build colony pod instead of Rec commons that you do not need if you keep population 2.

By the way, is retool strictiness in SMAniaC at 0? always free?
So if you switch to colony pod in Morgan Ind, you can hurry it in 2145 for 28 EC, loosing only 6 nutrients (26 accumulated).

York III has 18 nutriets. Wait till 2146 when it's 20 and then hurry colony pod. In 2147 you get colony pod and York has still population 2 and will be accumulating new nutrients - gives time before the problem of population 3.

Formers:
Definitely needed like 2-4 per base. Forests should be first, they give you needed minerals. A base with 2 forests and recycling tank has 6 minerals. even with 2 units above limit you have 4 minerals.
Building roads is good for faster units relocation when needed. Also colony pods travel faster, you gain minerals for not upkeeping them. when having more formers you can remove even fungus from crucial tiles, that obstruct possible road between bases. with -1 planet sensors may be useful --> more formers.

Solar collectors:
Use mostly rolling, rainy tiles - elevation 1000-2000 meters. You get 2-1-2 when building only solar colector. energy is crucial not only for research but also hurrying where you get those needed additional minerals by paying for them. Hurrying is a good investment.

Recycling - yes get them asap everywhere. hurry only for 2 EC/mineral, after first (10?) minerals accumulated.
then increase number of formers. meanwhile build colony pods where needed keeping population 2.

[Hydro]

Mart,

I've been exploiting the size 2 base and CPs already. So far that is my strategy - expand as fast as possible by throwing everything into CPs. For Morgan with +1 energy at my home base sector this means more energy (and all the good things that come with it). In SMAniaC frontier gives you +1 efficiency, so if my math is correct I can have 11 bases before B-drones hit 1. Therefore, my number of target bases is 11. Over that and the native talents will be overwhelmed at size 2 since I get one angry drone at size 2, which is counteracted by the talent (with no police possible). So far I’ve rushed all my CPs, typically when they’re half or 2/3 done. Note that I do NOT want to go to size 3 until I have a rec commons up, which is an incentive to keep producing CPs.

Switching production is free in SMAniaC. This makes reallocation of resources easy.

As to formers, if I build 2-4 per base then I would have no production at all since my bases require support for each unit after the first (one of the joys of -2 support). This is why I’ve been so reticent about building formers. A starting base has 2 industry, and of that I get 1 free scout but the next unit (CP or former) takes support – moving my industry down to a horrible 1, which will only get bigger when I grow my base to size 2. I built a former at Morgan Industries right away and was punished for it with 1 production for quite a while.

My typical strategy is to rush a former on the turn after I build the base using my 10 free mins when you establish a base and 25 energy. Morgan gets NO free mineral when he establishes a base due to -2 support so I can’t rush anything – I have to wait for about 5 turns to get 10 mins. Then I have the nasty choice of building a scout (this is worm ridden territory – having no defense is bad) or rushing a former and having no defense for 4 or 5 more turns. An exposed base for ~10 turns is not a happy situation, so I’ve reluctantly opted for the scout. Then I have the choice of a former or a CP – I chose the CP to get more bases. As I said, a nasty choice. Both a CP and former offer different sorts of Turn Advantages (to use Vel’s lingo).

That said, not having terraforming is starting to cripple me in other ways and I’ll have to take the hit and build them. It hurts less for size 2 bases. What may make sense is to have the interior bases make formers and keep the exterior bases on CPs – grow from the outside (to reduce transit time of CPs to their home) and build from the inside.

I completely agree on recycling tanks. I just got the tech for recycling tanks in 2145. Before that all I could build were recreation commons, which are pretty useless for size two cities. Having Morgan Industries switch to tanks probably does make sense rather than a rec commons, but unfortunately I’ve already committed in my submitted turn. That’s OK though – Morgan Industries is growing to size 3 soon and I’ll need the drone control. Next in the queue is a tank, which will be easier to build with more resources. The plan is have Industries grow vertically, and the rest grow horizontally.

For terraforming, not having roads and nasty fungus blocking the way is the worst penalty. I’m fortunate in that I have rainy sectors for all my bases, so farms are largely irrelevant since nutrient restrictions haven’t been lifted. A good many of my sectors have rivers, which reduces the critical need for solar collectors (and I’d only get 1 more energy if I build SCs due to energy restrictions, so they are lower on the priority list). Also, with bases in the Pholus Ridge and Uranium Flats I reach the energy cap pretty darn quickly. Forests at 1-2-2 are pretty darn good in Pholus and Flats. I’ve built some in the hopes that they’ll spread into the fungus. Ripping out fungus takes 10 turns in SMAniaC, so right now I’d rather plant a few forests or road/farm/solar instead.

In the end, I guess I’m having a hard time adapting my typical strategies to the SMAniaC Morgan. Perhaps that is the best reason to play him.

Hydro

[Mart]

Well, I agree, no free 10 minerals is hurting. Setting "former pumps" in the inner territory bases seems the way to go. also scout patrols may be built faster in bases already well established and sending them with colony pods. New base would have a defender right from the start.

No roads is not that bad when you have rivers. Maybe put some bases more closely, like in ICS.

You play with blind research, but you have formers now, I think 1 and then 2 per base is good for start, but you need additional minerals. And forests are the best source.

I'm not sure growing Morgan Ind vertical is good at this time. you have only few tiles average cause there is a lot of fungus stil around:
3 times 2-1-1 on rivers, one 2-1-0, some ocean 1 nut and rock 1 mineral. that's all. it would support 1 specialist, but at size 5. not a fast upgrade. I would have another idea:

I attach a screenie. The red cross, 3 tiles NE shows proposed location of a new base. Consider the following:
- rehome former to Swakopmund, you have +1 mineral free in MI - I think HQ needs upgrade faster.
- switch rec commons to colony pod, this is to give no support for those workers for little extra than 2 nutrients they will eat from 2-1-1 tiles.
- free the forest W and SW from MI, so MI (Morgan Ind) can work it. you will have +4 minerals at this point!
- hurry colony pod for those 25 EC in 2146? you submitted 2145 already ? pay in full, so next turn in 2147 you have already accumulated 4 minerals.
- in 2147 give "hold" order to colony pod. st production to scout you have 4 + 3 (cause cp takes 1 now) so to 10 you need only 3 more. how much to pay? i think the following:
6+4+4 = 14 EC. Cause it below 10 minerals, the cost is doubled. it would be in full:
3+2+2+2+2+2, but doubled:
6+4+4+4+4+4, though you can pay those 3 expensive only. If you want to spend more for security, like mindworm entering forest, these 12 EC to ful payment of 26 EC may be worth it.
- anyway in 2148 you get cp and scout ready to go to that red cross. they may if lucky reach it using river in the same turn, if not in 2150 you establish a new base, that due to that nutrient in the ocean will grow fast. rehome new scout there and start former.
- in 2148 in MI start former. you get initially +2 minerals only, but in 2150 it is +4 again!
- in 2151 you should have more than 10 mins in MI to hurry former there. pay in full, so you start the second one or recycling tanks with 4 mins accumulated already.
- make forests in those 3 river tiles 2-1-1 now, but then 1-2-2, note MI working such forests with 2 pop will not grow, but you have 8 energy in that base and 5 or 6 minerals with recycling tanks, supporting 2 formers its 3 to 4. those 2 formers will make a difference. build roads or forest to grow over fungus, etc.
- that red cross base can be a colony pods pump due to nutrient bonus, when with another river forest and recyc tanks minerals will be 4 minus 1 or 2 when supporting 2-3 units. you will hurry cp's mostly. a second forest there may improve it a lot, when that ocean nutrient doeas not need to be worked

[Mart]

So if you keep MI at 2 population, "pump" formers only from there. rehome them in new bases to free resources, they will soon build more forests and support themselves.
Red cross base would "pump" colony pods

[Maniac]

You're playing Morgan. All you need minerals for is to get to 10 minerals. After that you just hurry everything with your abundant energy.

Anyway, you've played much more SMAniaC than me by now, so you're probably a better judge of the balance of the factions. However to offer the idea I had in mind when making that change: the -1 minerals from Support is more than offset with the energy boni from running Plutocrat and/or Private property economies. Personally I think the main problem for Morgan here is that you're playing Blind Research and thus can't b-line to these social engineering choices. I always played with Blind Research off and haven't given one second of thought of how the factions would play under Blind Research. Picking your research strategy is a large part of the fun of the game for me.

[Mart]

I still have passwords for Smaniac Prime pbem. It is 5 player, and game reached 2115. do you think it might be revived?

[Maniac]

You mean with me in it?