new SMAC player with questions

[Noesis]

hey all,

so glad I found this site. Lots of good information. I have been trying to find answers to a few questions, but the datalinks havent yielded me much progress.

1) How do I form groups?

I have tried following what the manual says and pressing Shift+J while I have 2+ units of same type on the same tile. I then press "ok" when I get the exclusion parameter window. Yet after that seemingly nothing happens. When I try to move one or the other unit I tried forming a group with, only the currently selected unit moves.

2) Is it worth it to construct as many bases as one has tile space for and then use terraforming to mold terrain around the base? Barring building a base in the middle of the great dunes or something. Or is it not worth the -ineefeciency of creating so many bases. Assuming you will terraform each base to the max.

[BlackCat]

Re: new SMAC player with questions

Originally posted by Noesis
hey all,

so glad I found this site. Lots of good information. I have been trying to find answers to a few questions, but the datalinks havent yielded me much progress.

1) How do I form groups?

I have tried following what the manual says and pressing Shift+J while I have 2+ units of same type on the same tile. I then press "ok" when I get the exclusion parameter window. Yet after that seemingly nothing happens. When I try to move one or the other unit I tried forming a group with, only the currently selected unit moves.

Haven't used it, but according to the manual, then after forming the group, a press on j gives a possibility to move the group. A small test gave unfortunatedly only the possibility to move the group to a base wich isn't exactly useful.

2) Is it worth it to construct as many bases as one has tile space for and then use terraforming to mold terrain around the base? Barring building a base in the middle of the great dunes or something. Or is it not worth the -ineefeciency of creating so many bases. Assuming you will terraform each base to the max.

Now that for certain is a trick question It all depends on a ton of parameters.

This is a long doc but it is pure gold :

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/96102/2480

[CEO Aaron]

In particular scroll toward the end and read the sections on turn advantage. Reading Vel's guide REALLY revolutionized my approach to the game, I'm certain if you take his wisdom to heart it will yours as well.

The short answer to question 2 is YES. Drone management is fairly easy once you know your stuff in this game, and that's the primary drawback to plunking down numerous bases. The fastest you can produce ANYTHING is one thing per base per turn. That paradigm heavily favors a large number of bases over a few highly developed ones. Also the long duration of game time in which your bases will be limited to 14-16 citizens also limits the viability of non-ICS play.

The bottom line is that if you're having trouble tackling the game at Transcend, build more bases.

[Hercules]

Stuck at normally 14 base size

Also the long duration of game time in which your bases will be limited to 14-16 citizens also limits the viability of non-ICS play.

Too true.

[Darrell01]

fdgdfg

Yeah. Since there is a build queue (that no one really uses in the way it was meant to be used) you'd think you'd be able to build more than one item a turn. I would dearly love to take a new base, put a huge build list into it and then pour 5000 credits into it and turn it into a megalopolis industrial complex. I ... Hey, that reminds me of another thread...

[breffie]

Actually you are not stuck to the population limit of bases before Habitation Domes. Just produce colonists and send these to your most developed bases. Pretty soon you'll have a few giant bases. I always do this as soon as I can afford it. It's an incredible boost for labs and economy.

[CEO Aaron]

Bit of an exploit, no?

[Hydro]

Maybe, but you do pay for it by having to pay for a colony pod and sacrificing pop at another base. So it certainly isn't free. I'd even wonder if there are better uses for the production and population if you're using this tactic during the early or mid game (when it matters).

Hydro

[CEO Aaron]

yeah, but building one or two small bases which crawl in massive amounts of nutrients and minerals and just squirt out colony pods every other turn aren't really that terrible a burden to maintain, and the long term benefits are definitely worth it. You're leeching population off an outpost to feed your capital. My issue is you've basically sidestepped the hab restrictions by finding a spot where the devs weren't looking. Not very hard in a game of this complexity and age.

[breffie]

Actually I go for the cloning vats. Once you have the cloning vats every colony pod is basically for free, there is no population loss at all. And there aren't that much need of anything else in mid-game unless your'e in a devastating war. Adding another base to my empire won't have the same dramatic effect as adding a Librarian to my capital with the Supercollider.

[Hydro]

By the time you get Vats the game is likely decided. You're right about free growth, though, with vats, since you'll just boom until hab limits or drones taken you down.

CEO - you're likely right about that. I guess I'm not that sneaky a player.

Hydro

[CEO Aaron]

Hydro's right. Once you've got the Cloning Vats, it's all over except the weepy speeches in the postgame show. Also, the distance between Cloning Vats and Hab domes isn't really far at all. So I suppose in that respect while you're taking advantage of a loophole in the hab mechanics, it doesn't really matter that much.

[Hercules]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Hydro's right. Once you've got the Cloning Vats, it's all over . Also, the distance between Cloning Vats and Hab domes isn't really far at all.

That may be in SP games, but in MP games, especially against other opponents who have snagged some significant SPs and some high level techs above yours in a different path, it is different. For example in a recent game I had the CV but didn't have the Super Tensile Solids tech so couldn't expand beyond the 14/16 limit. And at that late stage in the game, going back to acquire missed techs and of course missing advanced techs can be crucial.

[breffie]

Originally posted by Hydro
By the time you get Vats the game is likely decided. You're right about free growth, though, with vats, since you'll just boom until hab limits or drones taken you down.

CEO - you're likely right about that. I guess I'm not that sneaky a player.

Hydro

Well. Usually I'm having tech stagnation on so it does take a while from cloning vats to habitation domes, and this way I'm actually not bothered at all by the drone riots that follows from bases growing faster than they can support. And it's not that I start this tactic when I get the cloning vats, I just do it much more after that because I can afford it so much more.

One of the main reason I don't use the governors at all is that they will always build hab complexes and hab domes way too early. Other than that, always having a drone riot somewhere is a small prize to pay for phenomenal growth. But your'e right that the game is more or less decided by then.

[MariOne]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron Bit of an exploit, no?

NO!

My issue is you've basically sidestepped the hab restrictions by finding a spot where the devs weren't looking.

PURITAN.


And by that I don't mean purist, that is one who strives to stick by the strictest "spirit" of the game, on the contrary, I mean one who opposes any creative strategy which are the true richness of such a multi-tiered game just because he didn't think about it or mastered it himself.

Of course I know by your history here that you don't fit at all in the latter description, still it's my humble opinion that the quoted opinions are puritan's ones, regardless who states them.


And anyway, this issue had been discussed here over 5 years ago, especially with Misotu IIRC.

Hab limits prevent growth by nutrients accumulation or pop booming.
Hab limits do NOT prevent growth by Creche Population Surge event, nor by Colony Pod 'B' Adding.
That's how the game works.
Period.

Up to any and each player to devise wether and/or when would it be convenient to actually use such legal tactic, instead of using the colonists to create further bases (provided 'viable' room is available)