what changes would you like to have in SMAC?

[breffie]

I have a couple of pretty easy things that would make SMAC more interesting.
- First of all a better interface for the unit workshop. And a few extra slots for modding.
- More modding friendly still. Extra slots for everything, abilities, reactors, fascilities, SPs and you name it.
- Coastal bases ought to extend borders across the sea just like sea bases do.
- Less powerful satellites. The satellites ought to only support the base that launched them.
- Many Secret Projects eventually expires just like in civ2.
- 38 fascilities in one base is way too much at the same time. I'd like to see fascilities becoming obsolete and in need of replacement: As an example Perimeter defences are later to be replaced with, not cumulative with, Tychyon fields. And it would also be interesting if you had to choose between what fascility to build. For instance one could have either a nanorobotic plant or a genejack factory, choosing between high costs or unhappiness penalties, but not both. And finally coastal bases have fascilities that cannot be built in inland or sea bases e.t.c.
- better AI ofcourse.

[Hydro]

I'm not sure about SPs that expire. After all, in Civ we're talking about thousands of years, whereas in SMAC it is ~200. The time scale is a bit different.

For facilities, I view them as stacking - an improvement, if you will. All the research facilities could be seen as a continuous. At its base is a NetNode, then it is upgraded with a research hospital - etc. Tree farms and Hybrid Forests are a good example, too.

Sadly, I'm not sure we're ever going to see a SMAC2. As I understand it the franchise is in legal limbo. Plus, its creative head is now doing bigger and better things. It would break my heart to have SMAC turn into another MOO3, or be dumbed down game with eye candy.

Hydro

[Marid Audran]

More mod-friendly/worthy, definitely. This comes from someone who has personally scoured the murky depths of the alphax.txt files and suffered slings & arrows of the the horrendously buggy facedit program, a necessary evil, to prevent terranx crashes. Some of that stuff, like the clunky workshop, I think are mostly products of its time. SMAC/X aren't as gleaming and smooth as strategy games today.

I disagree about SP/facility obsolescence; this isn't Civ, and in fact, I'd rather SMAC/X not confused with it. SMAC isn't "Civ-in-space," as some ignorantly reductive reviewers called it upon release; it's infinitely more complex, profound, and (especially) less cartoony a game than your standard Sid Meier sim.

The mechanics of SMAC are pretty solid in my opinion, almost flawless. The most I'd want with a SMAC 2, to be honest, are cleaned up bugs, cleaned up modding/workshop tools, some polish with the streamlining with menus and the like, AI that has a clue and knows what “terraforming” means, modestly updated graphics (I still very much grok the isometric, not that many of the gaming hoi polloi agree), and Helena Bonham Carter playing Deidre Skye in the vids. Not so much to ask, eh?

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Marid Audran
The mechanics of SMAC are pretty solid in my opinion, almost flawless. The most I'd want with a SMAC 2, to be honest, are cleaned up bugs, cleaned up modding/workshop tools, some polish with the streamlining with menus and the like, AI that has a clue and knows what “terraforming” means, modestly updated graphics (I still very much grok the isometric, not that many of the gaming hoi polloi agree), and Helena Bonham Carter playing Deidre Skye in the vids. Not so much to ask, eh?

I agree, but I'd also like anything from Civ IV that represents an advance in game mechanics. I'm fascinated with the morale upgrade tree and the national wonders.

[Aabraxan]

A way to save my own unit designs from game to game. This is something I've wished for in games since MOO2. Once I've found a design that works, I'd like to be able to save it and not have to recreate it every game.

[Darrell01]

I'd like to see new facilities be easier to create. For instance, there is the brood pit. This gives the city +2 police rating, and mind worm police. Well, someone might want to create a facility called "Recycling Factory" and this gives the base +1 industry rating and +5 ecology to just the city. Maybe make a facility called "Logistics Staging Center" that gives +1 support. I'm not sure if there is a way to edit facility functions in this way. Perhaps there is.

I'd like to be able to put modifications on mind worms. A fungus planting mind worm besides towers would be cool. A subterranean worm, like a sea lurk, but its a land lurk, would be cool. AAA Spore pods would make sense.

I'd like to see coordinated attacks where you could attack with a set of units at the same time. I'd imagine it might be something like Civ: Call to Power, but perhaps better. Defense would be a lot trickier.

I'd like to see an option to withdraw an attacking unit after taking so much damage, and if they do withdraw, there is a chance they will be pursued and destroyed.

I'd like to see the game movies in a more common format so that people could create their own videos.

[CEO Aaron]

Re: what changes would you like to have in SMAC?

Originally posted by breffie
- First of all a better interface for the unit workshop. And a few extra slots for modding.

I don't have a problem with the design shop as currently implemented, though they could do something to make it less administration-heavy. Streamlining the retirement of designs, for example.

- More modding friendly still. Extra slots for everything, abilities, reactors, fascilities, SPs and you name it.

Sure, this is always nice, but I personally place a higher premium on stability and basic gameplay than on making the modders' lives easier.

- Coastal bases ought to extend borders across the sea just like sea bases do.

They already do, they just don't do it very far.

- Less powerful satellites. The satellites ought to only support the base that launched them.

Then how is a satellite any different from an ordinary base facility? Frankly, while satellites do make huge scores possible, they come so late in the game that the outcome is pretty much foregone by the time they're a factor.

- Many Secret Projects eventually expires just like in civ2.

Yeah, I'm with the others here. The expiration mechanic is used to impose some historical realism on the gameplay. There's no reason to impose that on SMAX. You sacrifice a great deal of turn advantage by building early projects, they SHOULD continue to pay dividends commensurate with their costs.

- 38 fascilities in one base is way too much at the same time. I'd like to see fascilities becoming obsolete and in need of replacement: As an example Perimeter defences are later to be replaced with, not cumulative with, Tychyon fields.

This is an idea with some merit. Upgrading facilities rather than just adding to a big stack would really improve the cleanliness of the interface. Also certain base facilities really lend themselves to such a scheme. Fusion/Quantum labs, for example.

And it would also be interesting if you had to choose between what fascility to build. For instance one could have either a nanorobotic plant or a genejack factory, choosing between high costs or unhappiness penalties, but not both.

I'm not wild about that idea, personally. That's really just fewer choices disguised as more choices. Make the facilities balanced in and of themselves, and let the builder decide what he wants to pay for. There's no point in artificial limits.

And finally coastal bases have fascilities that cannot be built in inland or sea bases e.t.c.

Like what? The recreation beach? I think coastal bases are quite crucially useful as it is without adding new junk just for them.

- better AI ofcourse.

I'll start MY list with your last suggestion. I'd also like to see an improved AI, a graphics upgrade, a reshuffle of the lower tech tree to account for the enormous significance of Industrial Automation, and some corresponding lowering of late game techs that never seem to get any play because the game is virtually over by the time they're available.

Bug fixes to build queues, removal of the self-destruct mechanic (which was always patently ridiculous), elimination of support costs for (non PB) missiles, as well as a wider variety of payloads. Fix the line of sight for sensor beacons, improve the utility of fortifications and introduce other terraformed defenses, including one that work in water. Minefields come to mind here.

Eliminate the fungus jungle altogether, or rework it so that it's not quite so ridiculously overpowered.

The AI issue is actually so huge, it warrants another paragraph: teach the AI to terraform intelligently, make it plan scrap/stop building obsolete units and make it more willing to move around obstacles instead of bouncing against staunch prepared defenses.

[Hydro]

Fungus jungle – do you mean Monsoon Jungle? If so, yes it is overpowered and should be tweaked.

AI terraforming – the SManica Mod does this by removing mines and solar panels until later. In my current game it is MY2150 and the Cyborgs and Cult have both built forests (!!!), there are no stupid mines on rolling moist sectors, and there are farms where there should be. I still see a profusion of roads, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The key here is to remove the abilities that the AI consistently hobbles itself with.

A better AI would be wonderful. It can be done - witness the GalCiv2 AI.

Hydro

[CEO Aaron]

Yeah, Monsoon Jungle... doh, I let Nausicaa polute my brain.

[Straybow]

The Chassis concept is great, but poorly implemented. None of these things needs to be "invented" as they already exist in the literature, engineering education, and perhaps even design specs carried with the settlers.

The basic chassis types (wheel, boat, fixed-wing single-engine propeller) should be available in weak form from the onset. No armor, no weapons beyond Laser.

Advancement depends on production capabilities, not book-knowledge. A generic factory would be required to build larger wheeled vehicles and boats (including Supply vehicles), single-engine fighter/attack and light multi-engine craft (prop-driven). Light hoovercraft can be built.

The next level of production is specialized factories. An Armory is needed to produce tracked vehicles and heavy weapons. A Shipyard is needed for DD and larger ships and heavy hoovercraft. An Aerodrome is necessary to build heavy multi-engine planes.

To put heavy weapons on a DD+ ship, or armor on any vehicle, requires at least one Armory in any base of the faction.

An Advanced Factory in at least one base is required to build choppers, jet engines, rockets, missiles, and advanced energy weapons. This would include armaments for fighting vehicles that fall into those classes.

One thing that bugs me is Rail transport. No, I don't mean Maglev high tech blather. I mean plain ol' rails. To differentiate make rail half the move cost of roads and only Maglev unlimited move. Road, Rail, and Maglev are built with separate commands (no road required for rail or mag) with the latter taking double and triple the time of roadbuilding (respectively).

Rail becomes available with the first generic factory built by the faction. Maglev becomes available with the first Advanced Factory.

Mines would only be practical with rail (or maglev) to transport the tonnage of bulk materials back for transport. A mine has only ½ production without a rail/mag on the tile.

Lots of other ideas along these lines.

[Xian]

Re: Re: what changes would you like to have in SMAC?

[SIZE=1] a reshuffle of the lower tech tree to account for the enormous significance of Industrial Automation, and some corresponding lowering of late game techs that never seem to get any play because the game is virtually over by the time they're available.

Play SMAniaC, trust me.

[Hydro]

Second SManiaC!

In my SMAniaC MP I just got Industrial Base (now a B2) and was surprized to find mineral restrictions lifted. This is relatively early, and any Conqueror who neglects this will find a Builder loaded for bear.

The default Society is Technocrat, which has +1 eff, +2 research, and -2 probe. My Uni could stay here the whole game!

The default government is Unitary Democracy with +1 talent, -2 police, and +2 probe. No police! This is somewhat mitigated by +1 talent of Technocrat. Still, this is a pain since my bases riot when units leave my sphere of influence and will always have my size 3 bases riot.

The AI builds forests (!!) and there are no stupid farm/mine combos.

Yes, it plays like a different game.

I put together an Excel based summary of the SE, techs, SPs, etc. It is at the SMAniC thread, or I can e-mail it to you if anyone is interested.

Hydro

[Darrell01]

Yeah, Maniac is the man for makiing SMAniaC. I get upset with it sometimes because I don't have magtube attack arrays, so beating an annoying AI down in 2 or 3 turns isn't as easy to do till much, much later.

[wodan11]

The biggest thing I would change about SMAC (besides improving the AI and other software implementation) is to better balance the SPs. Some of them were simply way too strong.

Wodan

[MoNoLitH]

Originally posted by Marid Audran
...modestly updated graphics (I still very much grok the isometric, not that many of the gaming hoi polloi agree)

I've noticed that the vast majority of games that advertise their graphics engines have crappy, broken gameplay. Probably a function of how much time is spent making the graphics look as good as possible, while the rest of the design is totally derivative and cookie-cutter.

Might sound like a bitter old guy that's nostalgic for the golden days of gaming, but I'm only 24. I'm just well aware that graphics mean very little to how well a game is built and balanced. I want to be a game developer/designer after I finish grad school so I think it's important for me to understand these concepts well. The biggest problem is that game design has become a vast industry, not a form of art like it deserves to be.