What faction is most likely to win?

[CEO Aaron]

I know what you're thinking, another awful poll about which faction is stronger in the game. But NO! Forget about game mechanics, tech trees, unit types, turn advantage, the works.

Instead, given just the overall storyline of the drive for survival and transcendence on Chiron, and the motivating ideologies of the human factions, which do you think has the tools to survive and thrive? Feel free to induct any kind of reasoning you like into the argument, just steer clear of game mechanics.

While I'd like to get the discussion going with some of my own thoughs on the matter, I'm worried that my post might skew the results, so I'll pitch in later if we get some responses.

Please do accompany your vote with a post with your reasoning, I don't just want a popularity contest here. Thanks!

[Nikatl]

I had to go with the Gaians *grrr spelling* based on the fact the planet starts falling apart from a human perspective not that long after shipfall. since the G's get a jump on mind-worm relations and have an overall join not conquor approach to planet. unless of course deidra lands next to yang, then her pretty little flower power ends up making nice decoupage for a drone.

[Blake]

Hummm.

First I can give a list of factions not likely to win, these are factions whose ideology is too rigid, or who are doomed to repeat the mistakes of history, or just aren't interested in imperialism.

Spartans (If they conquer an empire, it'll probably fall apart, their ideology wouldn't work well for a large empire)
Believers (Too stuck in their ways, probably wont adapt to Planet)
Morgan (Will get pwned by worms or an aggressive faction)
Free Drones (See Morgan with a side of Believers)
Pirates (Would sink on landing, you can't build sea bases, dumbass)
Data Angels (They would lack the ambition to form an empire - besides there'd be no-one to harass with probes)
The Cult of Planet (Will get stomped by an aggressive faction, just bring flameguns, little chance of holding together an empire)

So moving on to the winners:
Human Hive. Yang has the ideology and methodology to form a globe-spanning empire and hold it together. He can likely crush anyone and anything in his path with sheer numbers.
University of Planet. Most problems do have technological solutions, and the UoP are most likely to solve those problems. Believer conviction or spartan training is nothing in the face of weapons which are magnitudes more powerful. Also Zak wouldn't hesitate to do what is nessecary to ensure the survival of his faction (ie planetbusting a hostile faction...)
Peacekeepers. Through diplomacy he may be able to rally the "good" factions in defense against the "bad" factions. This is pretty iffy, but Lal is probably the most likely one to pull it off.
Gaians. The Gaians aren't really into rigid doctrine and stuff, this gives them flexibility and they are quite pragmatic so I think would ultimately do what they need to survive. Planet would not be a threat to the the Gaians and may help them survive, the main threat to their existence would be being nipped in the bud by an aggressive neighbor.
Cyborgs. Really for much the same reasons as the University, with the addition of their being no reason whatsoever why they can't form a unified globe-spanning empire. The main threat to their existence would be a deep mistrust from the other factions.

Overall I'd say the two most likely to win are Human Hive and University of Planet. My final vote went with Human Hive.

[Hydro]

Interesting question. I see the answer through the prisms of the quotes in Datalinks and my own observations.

First there are the quotes from datalinks, and I notice a few things:
• Sparta Command (and likely the Spartan Federation) is destroyed, and the commentary is from Deirdre. This suggests that for whatever reason the Spartan Federation is eliminated and the Gaians are in a position to offer commentary.
• Most of the high-end tech quotes are from Zakharov, including ominous missives about a rising Planet and the threat of extinction. This clearly indicates that the University is a vital force, since high-end research, which is not likely if the faction is faced with extinction.
• High-end technology relating to Planet is generally from the Gaians, which also indicates they’ve survived in some fashion.

Other quotes seem to mainly be from Morgan with a few ‘be careful’ quotes from Miriam. The other factions are largely silent.

Overall, to me this indicates that a Uni-Gaian alliance prevailed. Perhaps the Hive, Spartans, and Believers beat the snot out of each other such that they were no longer competitive once a technological tipping point was reached. The University would have no reason not to charge ahead, and the Gaians would be similarly inclined as far as Planet goes. A Uni-Gaian alliance would make a certain amount of sense since it would harness University research expertise and Gaian knowledge of Planet for a Transcendence victory. But who is the entity that is merged with Planetmind? For me this is probably Deirdre, who is sympathetic with Planet.

How might this happen? If we use Map of Planet as a guide there are a few places, continents, and configurations that are friendlier than others. For instance, if Morgan was isolated on the Isle of Deirina he’d be somewhat safe. Likewise, if a pair of the more peaceable factions were on any of the other three continents they’d be able to get along (maybe!) while the others beat the snot out of each other. It is easy to see how the Hive and Spartans could be at each other’s throats, or how the Believers might survive along the periphery as a technologically backward and relatively minor faction.

Hydro

[Nikatl]

*happy joyous laughter*

I love your thinking Hydro...but you forgot the $$$ factor...and the game designers may have only been able to afford the voice work from the morgon actor or they had a bunch of left over quotes and the Chief said "stick em here"....

but within the game world itself that is first class detective work and not a bad ending to the story.

[JMO707]

To achive the total domination of Planet, I really think that Yang has the guts and the cold minded vision to do so. He is not only machiavelic, but also really good on it.

Besides him, Miriam has the conviction and the cleverness to use that, from her and from his people, to her advantage. I always have seen her like a real treath to any other faction. I never understimate her capabilities.

Then, the only other factions that can eclipse those two, are Gaians and Cybernetic Conciousness.
I see Deidre has the only one with the bonds strong enough with the Planet has for not being always fighting it, and with the foots on the ground to not being distracted from the situation after the landing. Finally, she and the Gaians have virtues that help them make front to the more aggresive factions without become a militaristic faction themselves.

Cybernetic... they are utterly efficient, even when there efficacy lacks of objetives that could make them see far enough to make extreme choices. Thats the price to have everything calculated. Probably, they will not bet against the chances, and therefore be prisioners of the utility balance.
Anyway, has I said, under equilibrated situations, they have the capabilites to pull off the best results, even lacking of the "bigger-goal-sacrifice" that the Hive or the Believers has. Mmm, I doubt from this election now.

That were my opinions.

[Hydro]

My only gripe with the Hive, Spartans and Believers is that the flip side of their ruthless determination is ideological rigidity. Such factions would start well and excel to a certain point, and then hit a wall both technologically and socially.

They might very well achieve a conquest victory, but most rigid ideologies fare poorly and seem to sink under their own weight of contradictions. My guess is that the ingrained inefficiencies and blinders of the Blood Makes Grass Grow factions would lead them (and humanity) to a bad end, or they would mutate into something completely different after another round of blood letting or render Planet into another Earth.

Hydro

[Darrell01]

Each faction has its own strength. I would venture to say each faction is likely run in much the same way. People are people. However each faction has some social value it puts emphasis on to get it through tough times. Here is my rundown.

Hive - The Hive believes in a strong leader with a dream and a goal. There is an emphasis in numbers of people and putting enough people to a given task, it can be overcome.

University - the University strives for knowledge and explanation. With knowledge, an adversary can be overcome with little effort.

Gaians - Gaians believe in running a clean ship where every little thing is used up completely and there is little or no waste. With little on the inside bothering you, you can focus outwards and continue to grow.

Morganites - The Morganites believe in a healthy economy and lots of energy. Each new area has resources to exploit to use to improve and strengthen the economy. With a strong economy, any outside threat can be overcome by industry and innovation.

Peacekeepers - The Peacekeepers value a strong, democratic government that takes care of the problems people have. If there is an obstacle, a committee of concerned individuals can be assigned to overcome.

Spartans - The Spartans believe in individual responsibility and a strong military. The best person to make sure you are safe is yourself. Train and study hard and if a problem arises, you can overcome.

Believers - The Believers believe in a power higher than themselves and they have a strong sense on faction loyalty. We are the good guys and we will do things the correct way first, even if it takes a little longer.

Cyborgs - Man has used tools since the beginning of time. The best tools become part of the body, sending man to a new level of production, thought, and overall output. The "tool man" will either have the right tool for the job, or be able to create one.

Data Angels - The best strength is deception. With perfect deception, your enemy has useless power and your power is focused. Any obstacle's weaknesses can be found and exploited for complete and easy victory.

Pirates - The Pirates believe in ubiquitousness and freedom. We can be everywhere and no where. If the enemy comes, we can run away and attack at our leisure. Till then, bring out the fungus brew!

Drones - Even the littlest individual must be respected and given heed. Every care must be taken to ensure the smallest is looked after. With everyone taken care of, they will undoubtadly join together to overcome any problem.

Planet Cult - The Planet Cult also believes in a higher power. There is a huge concioussness we need to listen to and heed. We must raise our conciousness level and eventually become one with it.

Who has what it takes? Indeed. I would venture to say it would be an amalgamation of 2 or 3 factions. Here are some of my comboes.

Data Angels/Morganite/Spartan - Autonomous EconoMilitary Bases

Hive/Drone/University - Raw industrial output and science application

Believer/Gaian/Pirates - Aggressive Expansive Empire

Among those, I'd say the first is the most probable. Among the Data Angels, Morganites, and the Spartans, I'd say the Morganites have it.

[candle_86]

Id have to go with UoP, mainly because of there ability to adapt and grow with a situation. Being one the smartest factions on planet is an advantage and means you wouldn't have to be ruthless to win, just smart. Who would dare to think you could beat seath probability dragon with a recon rover for instance, this is why id say UoP would win, simply because after awhile they would be light years ahead of everyone else technologiclly, and the smarter you are the better equiped you are to deal with planet.

[Xian]

I voted for the drones because of the solidarity factor. Its gonna be pretty hard to conquer a faction who your own citizens threaten to join during hardships like... well trying to conquer the world for example. Their ability to appeal to the vast majority of any faction would be their biggest weapon. The peacekeepers would also have a similar advantage as well

I should have voted for the Gains though, because their entire strategy is based around adapting to planet. Remember in a real world the technology tree and native life of planet would be completely unknown, and ecological damage causes much more suffering to a society than the game actually models.

[CEO Aaron]

Okay, we've got a few votes in now, so I'll unburden myself.

I picked the Peacekeepers, due to a number of factors:

1) Lack of extreme ideology. Most of the factions have a severe ideological tint that colors their actions and perceptions of the actions of others. In the long run, this will cause them to make incorrect assumptions and poor decisions, leading them into trouble. The PK's only REAL ideology taint is their belief that democracy is the only path to a free and just society. I suppose it's my own slant as well. My point is that ideological inflexibility leads to actual inflexibility.

2) Quality of life. At the end of the day, a culture is only as strong as its members. An empire founded on oppressed wretches is doomed to be weakened from within and then dominated from without. Ruthless and unprincipled leaders like Zakharov, Yang and Santiago might find short term success at the expense of their populace, but in the long run, their dissidents will find ways to flee to a better life. Such expatriates often bring with them new ideas wihch lend strength to their adopted homes. Just think of Einstein leaving Nazi Germany and you'll get what I'm on about. I guess what I'm saying is that refugess sometimes bring more than just the shirt on their backs.

Hydro, I liked your innovative take on my question. I guess the game developers think that the University or the Gaians are the ones who should run away with the show.

[Nikatl]

Hi Aaron,

the only thing is, that only covers recent history....the czars traditionally kept thier best design/thinking people as did the ancient egyptians...tho granted with the egyptians at the time they were the only show in town

but great points nonetheless, --I wasn't really argueing more just observing

[CEO Aaron]

While I'll agree some societies can and have managed to hang onto their 'talents', my point is about those beacons of freedom and prosperity that ATTRACT them.

[Frankychan]

I'd say either Yang or Deidre.

I just think that Yang has enough control and discipline within his faction to steer it to a point where if he can't beat you with words, he's going to beat you with weapons. I can see him wheeling and dealing and making other factions either become subordinate to him but still maintain their way of life, or downright conquering them.

Deidre I can see unlocking humanity's psychic aspects and reaching transcendence.

[candle_86]

my only problem with yang is he devlops tech so slow, he would after time be to far behind.