How long since a "What faction would you join" thread???

[gwillybj]

Originally posted by Darrell01
... If you detested the faction and rallied against it, you'd ...

"... go into the Tanks."

[Hydro]

Originally posted by Solver
Gee, what do people see wrong with the Cyborgs?

Did you ever see the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers (~1979)?

That is how I view the Cyborgs: cold, logical, ruthless, and utterly indifferent to human emotion. They are kind of like the Borg, but they have a prettier leader (if you ignore the chilling metal implants).

The Hive uses a cold philosophy to remove individuality and enforce loyalty. The Cyborgs simply give you an algorithm-based frontal lobotomy. In a way the Hive is better since at least there is the possibility of a small portion of self.

Hydro

[Solver]

I never got the impression that Talents are those in particular ideological agreement with the faction. I think of them as particularly accomplished and, well, talented - either excellent scientists or well-developed psychic powers, something like that.

[Solver]

Originally posted by Hydro


Did you ever see the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers (~1979)?

That is how I view the Cyborgs: cold, logical, ruthless, and utterly indifferent to human emotion. They are kind of like the Borg, but they have a prettier leader (if you ignore the chilling metal implants).

The Hive uses a cold philosophy to remove individuality and enforce loyalty. The Cyborgs simply give you an algorithm-based frontal lobotomy. In a way the Hive is better since at least there is the possibility of a small portion of self.

Hydro

Hm, as far as I understand the Cyborgs, they use algorithms to complement humanity, not entirely eliminate persona. They make humans more logical and provide them with the benefits of computers, but it seems that the Cyborgs still have a sense of individuality.

Maybe I like them because I'm a bit like that in real life. I strongly prefer logical behaviour over emotional (in myself and others), and generally find that people need more logic. Plus, I like the idea of having my brain wired into a computer, if it gives me the memory & calculation / data processing abilities of a computer.

The Cyborgs sure sound like they care less about emotional aspects, but that's a consequence of them being more logical beings than most people. And I see no evidence of them abolishing ethics or somesuch.

[Hydro]

I played in a MP as the Cyborgs a few years ago. It was great fun. Here is a bit of text from the story (the text of which was 250 pages long). It highlights my impression of the Cyborgs.

Hydro

*~*~*~*

Alpha Prime, MY 2140

The True Human council Rebecca Whinn sat down and folded her hands on the polished table. Her client looked over at her with a beseeching look. His face was composed, but strained.

First Chancellor Ryan stood. His salt and pepper hair was immaculate, and his cerebral nodes were polished to a high sheen. They seemed to glisten as they peaked just beneath his mane. He nodded to the defense. “The facts are clear, Prime Function. Waylan Jones was caught with the stolen goods in his possession. His DNA traces were found at the crime scene, and they had enough cellular decay to place him at the scene within the timeframe needed for the crime to have been committed. His alibi has not proven to be persuasive. In short, he is clearly guilty of theft. It is only logical to find him guilty, and impose a just sentence that will serve society, and mitigate some of the harm he has caused.”

The First Chancellor nodded to the Prime Function, and then turned ninety degrees to give a short bow to the defending council. She gave him a curt nod in return. The defendant did not look at him. His eyes were fixed on his judge, Aki Zeta-Five.

“The case was well argued by both sides,” she began. Her voice was impassive and tone flat. “In view of the evidence, the Consciousness finds the defendant Waylan Jones guilty of theft.”

Waylan moaned and his eyes slipped from Aki to the tabletop.

“His sentence is either ten Chiron years of hard labor in the agricultural fields, with a second class laborer’s salary that will be appropriated in full to pay for the theft and to support his family, or acceptance of the Consciousness and the retention of existing status, with remuneration to the injured party to be paid by the state. Mr. Jones, what is your choice?”

Waylan moaned again and muttered, “No, no, no, no…”

His council leaned over and whispered into his ear. She had a tense look on her face. As she whispered Waylan pinched shut his eyes and shook his head once, then more violently a second time. The defense council’s face took on a hard visage and she whispered in an audible voice, “Do it now or your family will be reduced to poverty, all because of your stupid mistake! You won’t get another chance! DO IT!”

Waylan’s will seemed to collapse. He nodded. His council immediately stood up and said, “Waylan Jones will accept the Consciousness.” She was about to add another statement but paused, thinking better of it, and sat down. Then she reached over and held his shaking hand.

“The choice is acknowledged by this tribunal. Sentence will be administered immediately,” she said.

At the prompt Chancellor Ryan Gamma-Four stood up, picked up a small black box from the table in front of him, and paced over to the table where the defendant sat. The meeting room was deathly quiet. He placed the box on the table, opened the lid, and took out two metal nodes, each trapezoidal in shape and three centimeters in diameter. Fine metallic tendrils writhed at the end of the trapezoids. As they neared Waylan they quivered, and snaked toward his temples.

In a quick motion Ryan Gamma-Four locked the nodes in place. Waylan gasped, then gave a strangled sound as his face contorted. His breathing became fast and shallow. Thin rivulets of blood dripped down from this temples as the tendrils drilled into his skull.

Rebecca’s eyes went wide as she tried to calm Waylan’s trembling hands. She whispered, “Don’t fight it. That only makes it worse…” Aki, Ryan and the rest of the audience looked on with dead eyes.

Finally Waylan collapsed. In a moment he sat back up, then stood. “I am Jones Delta-Seven. Transition complete.” His voice was lifeless.

The he looked over to Rebecca and deliberately removed his hands, which were no longer trembling, from her embrace. His eyes were emotionless and his face placid. Rebecca recoiled.

Aki said, “Welcome to the Consciousness, Jones Delta-Seven.”

[dmm1285]

The CoP

All the factions are cults to an extent, but at least they have the decency not to put "Cult" right in their name.

[Dis]

pretty much all of them. I just wouldn't fit in anywhere. I like to do my own thing.

gaia, definately don't fit in with the treehuggers
hive- yucky
lords believers- religion and red hair
spartans- warmongering
morgan industries- greed
peacekeeping forces- maybe
university of planet- intellectual elitists
data angels- computer geeks
free drones- anarchists and lowlifes
pirates- mmm, not too bad, but I don't like too much time on the water
cybernetic- I'm not into computers that much
cult of planet- how are they different from gaia's?

[The_Reckoning]

I would join none except the University, The Consciousness and the Morganites.

The others all seem to have human nature all wrong.

[Straybow]

Voted for who I would join without reading the poll instructions. It's the butterfly ballot! It can't be because I wasn't paying attention!

Anyway, I would not join anybody except Morgan or Peacekeepers. I could probably take Spartans if no first choice was available. Hive, drones, and cult are at the bottom.

In any case I'd cause trouble in a passive-aggressive way 'cause the self-appointed leaders are all wackos.

[Blake]

Re: The CoP

Originally posted by dmm1285
All the factions are cults to an extent, but at least they have the decency not to put "Cult" right in their name.

Or the cult have the honesty .

The Cult are Gaians - or maybe Believers - who realize that the planet is wonderful and something to be worshiped. And in SMAC, the planet is. In the SMACiverse embracing planet is also a somewhat viable strategy for survival (always an important criteria when evaluating an ideology).

The Believers believe that Planet is their promised land.

The Cult don't have that sense of entitlement, they wish to live in unity with planet, not displace planet. To put it like this - Planet belongs to the Believers, the Cult belongs to Planet.

The Believers have "faith" in some "God" whom cannot be proven to exist.

The Cult have a prophet who has a real psionic connection with the entity they worship.

Ultimately the Cult are at least pragmatic and grounded in reality, however bizarre that reality may be. BUT the fact that genocide is on their agenda is something of a turnoff - they are true zealots and that's never good.

Voted for who I would join without reading the poll instructions. It's the butterfly ballot!

[Solver]

You're probably misinterpreting the Believers. I don't think they care much about the Planet. They care about the fact that the rest of the factions have gotten quite removed from Christianity, and must be brought back to it. I don't see how they really care whether they're on Earth or Chiron.

The Gaians embrace the Planet, they're the ones who see it as a wonderful entity. They don't want to worship the Planet, they just want humans not to harm it and be in harmony with it. Given how the Planet is a sentient entity, I'd say the Gaian ideology is viable, and it's not fanatical.

The Cult are similar, and their prophet apparently really had a connection to the Planet, but the Cult are zealots. So their philosophy is dangerous.

[Hydro]

I think Solver has the right take on the Believers, Cult and Gaians.

The Believers have -1 Planet for a reason. They have no empathy to Planet and want to remake this new world based on the internally contradictory teachings of 4000 year old poetry. If Planet is speaking they can’t – or won’t – hear it; they’ve got psalms stuffed in their ears.

At the opposite end, the Cult have tuned out all but Planet. They would be the same as the Believers except for the little fact that their ‘god’ does exist in the form of a pre-sentient planet. Of course, worshiping Planet as a god may still be a little loopy. It is, after all, nothing more than a billion year old (failed) Progenitor experiment.

The Gaians are in between. They view Planet through the prism of Earth, at least initially. They are more sympathetic and, therefore, more open to its ‘message’. The Gaian datalink entries are instructive since you can almost see the realization growing of what Planet really is as more information is available – more evidence of the genius of Mr. Reynolds, in my opinion.

Hydro

[Solver]

Why do you consider the Planet to be a failed Progenitor experiment? My memory is somewhat blurry on the expansion mythology, but the Planet is sentient, even if it needs some outer influence (humans) to fully realize itself and its sentience. So what's the failure?

As for the Gaians, I think there's another important thing setting them apart from the Cult and Believers. The Cult and Believers only care for their respective agendas, and both are zealots that are quite willing to fight those who oppose their agendas. While the Cult's agenda makes some sense, as said in previous posts, their agenda is useless - harmful, in fact - from a survival viewpoint. Humanity isn't going to survive if a group of fanatics wages war on everyone.

Gaians, on the other hand, seem to have learned the lesson of Earth's demise. I think their willingness to listen to the Planet is only part of their ideology. The other part is their message to use our collective heads and apply the lessons of our past failures. Earth was abandoned largely thanks to an ecological crisis. By encouraging preservation of the Planet, the Gaians very reasonably are suggesting a way not to suffer the same failure for a second time.

[Blake]

The gaians are the faction which really tries to walk the middle path. They don't get blinded by ideology. They try to maintain some balance between the needs of the people and the needs of the environment. In fact Gaians are probably the least ideological faction. Their mission is to do what makes the most sense for the greatest good of everyone, with due respect for both the short and long term.


So far as Believers and promised land. It's right there in the datalinks:

^-1 PLANET: {Believe Planet is their promised land}

It doesn't get clearer than that!

The Unity is analogous to the Ark, both biblically and otherwise. Miriam probably narcissistly views herself as someone like Moses. It's a blend of a few different tales from the Bible but the believers believe it's all God's plan, that it's a second second chance God is giving humanity (all the other factions are such ungrateful wretches too!)

I don't think it's clear in SMAC what Miriam's opinion of Planet and the native life is, but I'm pretty sure she considers it to be wretched.


The Cult, I always figure to be formed from Gaians and Believers, the Gaians who "got a bit too close to the fungus", and weaker-willed Believers who discovered a god they can actually talk to. Basically - those who are addicted to psi, the most extreme eco-luddites and those seeking a "genuine" higher connection. Zealots through and through, but not all the same.


By the way if it seems I have an excessively negative opinion of Miriam it's not really so. I think that the Miriam quotes are some of the best and indicate a frightfully pragmatic attitude towards technology and a woman who is as much an enlightened philosopher as a rhetoric spewing bible-thumper. But just so damn righteous.

[Hydro]

Originally posted by Solver
Why do you consider the Planet to be a failed Progenitor experiment? My memory is somewhat blurry on the expansion mythology, but the Planet is sentient, even if it needs some outer influence (humans) to fully realize itself and its sentience. So what's the failure?

I consider Planet to be a failed experiment because of the cyclic spasms (Flowerings) as Planet achieves critical mass to achieve sentience and then crashes every 100M years or so. Of course, this could be the Progenitor's intent, but when the Flowerings exterminate almost life on Planet every 100M years or so that has got to be some kind of failure, or at least a faulty design. Even for the Progenitors 1 billion years is probably beyond what they can conceive, much less design for.

Earth’s tragedy does drive the Gaians, but that tragedy is many fold: ecological, political, social. They are all woven together such that addressing one is essentially useless. There needs to be a new way of thinking, and that is the Gaian’s whole point.

That said, the Gaians can be as hide bound and irrational as any other faction. But to me they seem to be true scientists: observing, listening, thinking, and not just reacting. Contrast this to the University who are a bit more linear, or the Cyborg who are certainly more linear (by programming, no less).

Hydro